Ken Ham believes in Dragons...

[weso1]

Damn I f'd that up.

Gary aren't you kind of old for that stuff?

They were on MLB The Show so even I know about them.

 

[BedellBrave]

And, whether true or not, has nothing to do with science and shouldn't be taught in a science classroom either. Do you think ID is science?

I think both are in the realm of philosophy and depending on how one defines "science" both can be. If you mean what we generally call "hard science," no. But the problem is "hard science" only takes you so far. It doesn't, can't, shouldn't address metaphysics. Yet, it can never truly be totally disconnected from such concerns. And so that's why it inevitably creeps in (as it does in Carroll's presentation). I wouldn't get too bent out of shape by it. Just recognize it for what it is. I think the hard-core, secular, materialist science folk shouldn't be too worried about having their philosophical beliefs and their presuppositions pointed out. I know they don't want to be seen as religious in any sense, but really, it's okay. You won't get cooties or something.

 

[Dalyn]

I think both are in the realm of philosophy and depending on how one defines "science" both can be. If you mean what we generally call "hard science," no. But the problem is "hard science" only takes you so far. It doesn't, can't, shouldn't address metaphysics. Yet, it can never truly be totally disconnected from such concerns. And so that's why it inevitably creeps in (as it does in Carroll's presentation). I wouldn't get too bent out of shape by it. Just recognize it for what it is. I think the hard-core, secular, materialist science folk shouldn't be too worried about having their philosophical beliefs and their presuppositions pointed out. I know they don't want to be seen as religious in any sense, but really, it's okay. You won't get cooties or something.

Evolution is not metaphysics (we "know" it happens, how is the only part that is a theory). There are classes for things that are. I am fine with ID being in those classes.

And we both know science isn't a religion, but you are welcome to keep up with that bit. All you have to do is pause for a minute and think about how many different people are scientists: Muslim; Christian; Catholic; Jewish; Buddhist; Hindu. And on and on... No scientific theory rooted in flawed ideas based on individual biases survive that much diversity. That is one of the reasons the scientific process exists in the first place. To keep such from happening.

 

[BedellBrave]

Evolution is not metaphysics (we "know" it happens, how is the only part that is a theory). There are classes for things that are. I am fine with ID being in those classes.

And we both know science isn't a religion, but you are welcome to keep up with that bit. All you have to do is pause for a minute and think about how many different people are scientists: Muslim; Christian; Catholic; Jewish; Buddhist; Hindu. And on and on... No scientific theory rooted in flawed ideas based on individual biases survive that much diversity. That is one of the reasons the scientific process exists in the first place. To keep such from happening.

Didn't say it was. But don't kid yourself into thinking that just because a person dons a white lab jacket that he/she automatically has no presuppositions or is a-religious. I think we are more likely to discover fire-breathing dragons before we are able to find such a mythological creature.

Again, don't fight it.

 

[Dalyn]

Didn't say it was. But don't kid yourself into thinking that just because a person dons a white lab jacket that he/she automatically has no presuppositions or is a-religious. I think we are more likely to discover fire-breathing dragons before we are able to find such a mythological creature.

Again, don't fight it.

That isn't what I am saying at all. I am just saying their work wouldn't survive with any flaws (due to those) once it is exposed to the scrutiny of all the different people who work in the same field. That's one of the reasons why the scientific process exists. It is also why it would be a mistake to suddenly start calling something like ID science.