Soroka Tears Achilles Tendon Again, Out for Season

[DirkPiggler]

Obviously coming back from two Achilles tears is not something you want to bet on and the Braves shouldn't expect anything out of Soroka.

That being said, if he missed all of next year and came back in 2023, he would be the same age that Kyle Wright is now (25). I'm not going to get my hopes up, but I hope they keep him around in the org given the upside if he ever were able to come back. You'd hate to see him pitch his age 25-30 seasons with some other team after spending a couple of years rehabbing with Atlanta.

If the Braves keep Soroka, he'll never recover from the injury.

Should they non-tender him, he'd recover by 2023 and end up as a mainstay on multiple World Series championship teams for the Nats, Mets, Dodgers, or Cardinals.

Such is the life of a Braves fan.

 

[TheBravos]

Enscheff was 100% correct. Although I wouldn’t personally choose the rebuild route the Braves took around heavy pitching…I felt it could be defended. It is coming painfully clear that it cannot.

They have even had decent success and it’s still painful. Fried was a bit of a lottery ticket coming off TJ surgery (but he was a trade). Most of the high draft picks have either failed or even when they seem to hit…end up injured(Soroka and many others).

On the flip side, the Pads took a high pick on a pitcher when it only made sense and then just traded for a really nice staff. They really didn’t give up “that” much in doing it. Cubs took the same path…so did the Astro’s.

If I had any doubt…I do not anymore. You are an absolute idiot if you put that kind of resources into pitching… it is soooo much more volatile than position players. Our biggest success has even come from trades or signings (even from the “Braves way” days). The one high pick that has panned out and stayed healthy?….the guy all of us hated at the spot he was taken (Anderson).

What might have been, had we leaned more towards position players. We would have had depth to make any pitching trade needed (for a proven guy).

We are two lucky international signings (Ozzie and Acuna), from almost needing to start over again. Without those two…there wouldn’t even be a question if Freeman would be signing back (he would definitely be gone).

 

[CyYoung31]

Enscheff was 100% correct. Although I wouldn’t personally choose the rebuild route the Braves took around heavy pitching…I felt it could be defended. It is coming painfully clear that it cannot.

They have even had decent success and it’s still painful. Fried was a bit of a lottery ticket coming off TJ surgery (but he was a trade). Most of the high draft picks have either failed or even when they seem to hit…end up injured(Soroka and many others).

On the flip side, the Pads took a high pick on a pitcher when it only made sense and then just traded for a really nice staff. They really didn’t give up “that” much in doing it. Cubs took the same path…so did the Astro’s.

If I had any doubt…I do not anymore. You are an absolute idiot if you put that kind of resources into pitching… it is soooo much more volatile than position players. Our biggest success has even come from trades or signings (even from the “Braves way” days). The one high pick that has panned out and stayed healthy?….the guy all of us hated at the spot he was taken (Anderson).

What might have been, had we leaned more towards position players. We would have had depth to make any pitching trade needed (for a proven guy).

We are two lucky international signings (Ozzie and Acuna), from almost needing to start over again. Without those two…there wouldn’t even be a question if Freeman would be signing back (he would definitely be gone).

And if thewupk’s mom had balls I’d be gay.

While focusing so heavily on pitching during a rebuild isn’t the best path, the Braves’ rebuild was a resounding success. Period.

 

[TheBravos]

And if thewupk’s mom had balls I’d be gay.

While focusing so heavily on pitching during a rebuild isn’t the best path, the Braves’ rebuild was a resounding success. Period.

Take away Acuna and Ozzie (who were before the rebuild)…and it looks different. It’s been successful no doubt. No argument. How much more successful would it have been if they went a different route? Probably more than can be proven. Remember, we would have still drafted some of these same pitchers either way. Probably looking at one or two other really good or all star position players and maybe one less pitcher..

 

[DirkPiggler]

Take away Acuna and Ozzie (who were before the rebuild)…and it looks different. It’s been successful no doubt. No argument. How much more successful would it have been if they went a different route? Probably more than can be proven. Remember, we would have still drafted some of these same pitchers either way. Probably looking at one or two other really good or all star position players and maybe one less pitcher..

Ozzie and Acuña were already in the system, but it's foolish to assume they weren't considered in the rebuilding process. Perhaps if they hadn't been in the system the Braves would have focused more on position players. Having two guys they believed to be sure things likely influenced the strategy.

Not that you're wrong about the overall point. Position players are a much safer bet as a draft philosophy.

 

[50PoundHead]

I think every team goes heavy on pitching simply because of attrition. You always have to have a pipeline of pitchers who are ready to step up when the inevitable breakdowns happen. I think an argument can be made that Coppolella/Clark went too heavy on pitching and a number of guys were overdrafted (Harrington) and there were some missteps in meting out bonus money. There's another angle that doesn't get talked about a lot, but Anthopoulos has traded young pitching prospects for bullpen help and not for hitters. Concentrating too heavily on drafting pitching is one part of the equation. It's what that commodity means in value and how it is utilized either through development for your own use or for trading for other needs is the other part of the scenario.

 

[clvclv]

This.

I think AA gets a bit of a pass for not trading some of the arms at the beginning - Hart and Coppy said they were interested in letting the analytics side at least have a bit more influence on decisions than it had in the past, but didn't exactly bring in a whole lot of people in to help with that. Alex said he needed time to get a look at these guys (and get more of his type of people in place) before cleaning house, so holding on to a few of them longer than he would have liked to is understandable since he was playing catch up with them.

I would still like to see some of these arms converted to relievers rather than traded - Touki has all the makings of a dominant Closer, Wilson and Davidson could probably be really good as multi-inning RPs (or in Tomlin's role if used more often to keep them sharp), but both make all kinds of sense as trade pieces if they'd bring something good back. If he's able to turn Wilson or Davidson into a really good back-end piece that you can control for 2-3 years like Allard for Martin I feel sure he'd make that deal.

I don't think Alex ever envisioned a fully homegrown rotation - he knows how little chance there is that that happens in today's game. He needed time to figure out which pieces he needed to keep, Soroka got hurt, and Wright turned into a pumpkin before he could do it. If the 2020 rotation wouldn't have imploded (causing Wright, Wilson, and Touki to become exposed at the MLB level), I feel relatively confident he would have traded two of them before their value tanked - he just didn't get that chance.

 

[TheBravos]

Ozzie and Acuña were already in the system, but it's foolish to assume they weren't considered in the rebuilding process. Perhaps if they hadn't been in the system the Braves would have focused more on position players. Having two guys they believed to be sure things likely influenced the strategy.

Not that you're wrong about the overall point. Position players are a much safer bet as a draft philosophy.

Right, but also remember that they were never too high on Ozzie and he was nearly traded(for a pitcher lol). I also doubt they could foresee Acura’s epic rise at that point.

I’m not against drafting pitching…you of course really need that. If you look at the Astros, Cub, Padres etc. (they went with a more balanced approach and then traded for proven rotation pieces). There is a path minus a few injuries that the Braves path could have turned out even better. The point is with pitching…it almost always turns out that way without a ton of luck.

None of this is on AA btw.

 

[Deester11]

Right, but also remember that they were never too high on Ozzie and he was nearly traded(for a pitcher lol). I also doubt they could foresee Acura’s epic rise at that point.

I’m not against drafting pitching…you of course really need that. If you look at the Astros, Cub, Padres etc. (they went with a more balanced approach and then traded for proven rotation pieces). There is a path minus a few injuries that the Braves path could have turned out even better. The point is with pitching…it almost always turns out that way without a ton of luck.

None of this is on AA btw.

Ozzie detractors were worried about his size, not his talent. When he came up, Markakis, Freeman and Snitker amongst others all praised his work ethic, etc. The FO was more sold on Dansby and probably would have tried to trade Ozzie for that pitcher as you stated. Bullet dodged.

I don't have a problem with pitcher emphasis, but I also think the Braves Way was blinded to positional needs at times and the entire pitchability thing was too often used for players drafted over their abilities. (That's just my opinion because I don't have a clue about their evaluation methods).

 

[clvclv]

Right, but also remember that they were never too high on Ozzie and he was nearly traded(for a pitcher lol). I also doubt they could foresee Acura’s epic rise at that point.

I’m not against drafting pitching…you of course really need that. If you look at the Astros, Cub, Padres etc. (they went with a more balanced approach and then traded for proven rotation pieces). There is a path minus a few injuries that the Braves path could have turned out even better. The point is with pitching…it almost always turns out that way without a ton of luck.

None of this is on AA btw.

I don't recall many Ozzie "detractors" at all once Dansby was acquired. One of the biggest concerns EVERYONE had - the organizational folks as well as posters and fans - was whether he'd be able to stick at SS because of his arm.

Once they were able to find someone good enough to move him off the position I don't recall anyone having concerns about Ozzie.

 

[DirkPiggler]

I don't recall many Ozzie "detractors" at all once Dansby was acquired. One of the biggest concerns EVERYONE had - the organizational folks as well as posters and fans - was whether he'd be able to stick at SS because of his arm.

Once they were able to find someone good enough to move him off the position I don't recall anyone having concerns about Ozzie.

I remember one late season interview where Hart babbled on about Ozzie having a lot of question marks or something to that effect. More than likely that is where the idea that the org didn't believe in him took hold. I chalked it up to Hart being late for his evening diaper change or something.

 

[clvclv]

I remember one late season interview where Hart babbled on about Ozzie having a lot of question marks or something to that effect. More than likely that is where the idea that the org didn't believe in him took hold. I chalked it up to Hart being late for his evening diaper change or something.

Yeah, I don't count things Hart said. He said plenty of stupid *hit back then, and still does when he's on the network.

 

[TheBravos]

Yeah, I don't count things Hart said. He said plenty of stupid *hit back then, and still does when he's on the network.

The only reason Ozzie wasn’t moved for Darvish was the other pieces in addition to him and the fact that the Cubs overpaid by even more (what a gut punch that would have been).

I always loved Ozzie and would have been hacked off if they traded him, but after the Dansby trade + Ozzie’s elbow….he was definitely being offered earlier on.

 

[Deester11]

I remember one late season interview where Hart babbled on about Ozzie having a lot of question marks or something to that effect. More than likely that is where the idea that the org didn't believe in him took hold. I chalked it up to Hart being late for his evening diaper change or something.

This specifically. And I saw Ozzie a lot. I still loved him at ss although the arm was just good enough. He had a lot of range. Hart was garbage...that says enough I guess.

 

[clvclv]

The only reason Ozzie wasn’t moved for Darvish was the other pieces in addition to him and the fact that the Cubs overpaid by even more (what a gut punch that would have been).

I always loved Ozzie and would have been hacked off if they traded him, but after the Dansby trade + Ozzie’s elbow….he was definitely being offered earlier on.

That's a lot of speculation for someone who wasn't in on the phone calls, sorry.

We've heard plenty about players (not just Ozzie) who were going to be included in deals that simply weren't when you hear from the people who actually MAKE the trades.

Not picking on you, but I'd prefer to hear that information from someone not named DOB, Bowman, or MLBTR. GMs have become masters of sending smokescreens through the press.

 

[TheBravos]

That's a lot of speculation for someone who wasn't in on the phone calls, sorry.

We've heard plenty about players (not just Ozzie) who were going to be included in deals that simply weren't when you hear from the people who actually MAKE the trades.

Not picking on you, but I'd prefer to hear that information from someone not named DOB, Bowman, or MLBTR. GMs have become masters of sending smokescreens through the press.

Every report alluded he was in the package and they ask for more than that. It wasn’t much of a secret…but ok…I do not want to follow you down this rabbit hole. It doesn’t really matter lol. I’m just glad he wasn’t traded.