Trades/acquisitions

[PawPawMaxwell]

I dont know where FF house in Orange County is but Newport Beach is about in the middle of OC. From there to Padres stadium is about 1 hour 10 minutes. From there to Dodger Stadium about 45 minutes with no traffic. To Angels Stadium maybe 20 minutes. If Freddie winds up on the West Coast I would think it will be one of those.

 

[Southcack77]

PawPaw asked would FF be willing to stick around for a mini rebuild. That’s what I was referring too. I’d be fine trading any of the players you mentioned. Especially Smith to clear that salary next year.

I guess we can debate who the Braves are signing with a .260 xwoba for less than their remaining year of obligation to Smith, but I do think he might net an asset of some kind in trade.

 

[Southcack77]

It's super unlikely Morton plays for anyone other than ATL and Tampa. Other teams are likely quite aware of this too. And it would be dumb for AA to try to play some sort of career chicken with him. The money saved is irrelevant. That money won't be rolled over into next year and we would be down yet another starter with nothing to show for it in return, while at the same time pissing off players in the organization. It also gives AA a bad image around the league, which could affect future negotiations.

Folks worry about the strangest things.

A trade isn't going down if he's going to retire rather than report and I do not think it's unreasonable to think that Morton might find a deadline trade to contender palatable even if it's not Tampa.

Also, still not sure Braves will sell though I kind of want them too.

 

[Southcack77]

Draft picks may no longer be tied to FAs after the next CBA is agreed upon. The MLBPA absolutely hates the fact FA contracts are being dragged down by draft pick compensation, so I expect them to be fighting hard for that to go away.

It is very possible the Braves get nothing in return for Freeman signing elsewhere, so trading him to a contender with horrid options at 1B like the Red Sox or Padres might net a decent return. I would certainly like to be on the seller end of a Preller spending spree as he tries to catch the Dodgers, that's for sure.

Absolutely.

 

[clvclv]

Draft picks may no longer be tied to FAs after the next CBA is agreed upon. The MLBPA absolutely hates the fact FA contracts are being dragged down by draft pick compensation, so I expect them to be fighting hard for that to go away.

It is very possible the Braves get nothing in return for Freeman signing elsewhere, so trading him to a contender with horrid options at 1B like the Red Sox or Padres might net a decent return. I would certainly like to be on the seller end of a Preller spending spree as he tries to catch the Dodgers, that's for sure.

Just not sure either of them goes "big" for him even if AA makes him available. Boston doesn't have anyone I'd be particularly interested in once you get past Gilberto Jimenez on their prospect list. Given Bloom's Tampa Bay background I'm not sure he'd even go that high to get Freddie, and you could make the argument that they'd be better than they are today making moves from within - bringing Duran up and putting him in CF and moving Hernandez to 1B just might make them a lot better without trading for anybody, and there's a non-zero chance Casas is their 1B come next spring. Freddie would arguably make San Diego the best offense in baseball, but does Preller have the cajones to bench a guy making $20+ million for him when Hosmer is still under contract for four more years after this one? Just not sure I see it - he's nuts, but I'm just not sure anyone's THAT nuts. He knows no one's going to take Hosmer off his hands unless he pays that contract way down with a seriously significant prospect. Is he dumb enough to give up something like Hassell/Campusano/Abrams and Hosmer and roll the dice that he could re-sign Freddie? Even if he was, would AA actually be willing to take Hosmer back considering he costs you $15 million per for the next 4 years as he declines at a higher rate than Freddie will?

 

[thewupk]

Draft picks may no longer be tied to FAs after the next CBA is agreed upon. The MLBPA absolutely hates the fact FA contracts are being dragged down by draft pick compensation, so I expect them to be fighting hard for that to go away.

It is very possible the Braves get nothing in return for Freeman signing elsewhere, so trading him to a contender with horrid options at 1B like the Red Sox or Padres might net a decent return. I would certainly like to be on the seller end of a Preller spending spree as he tries to catch the Dodgers, that's for sure.

Not sure how any of this works. But the CBA technically expires on Dec 1. Would any rule change about picks for free agents be set for this upcoming offseason? I would have to think with the timing of this and possible FA's already being signed before that date that it would have to go into effect for the next offseason but who knows.

 

[Enscheff]

Just not sure either of them goes "big" for him even if AA makes him available. Boston doesn't have anyone I'd be particularly interested in once you get past Gilberto Jimenez on their prospect list. Given Bloom's Tampa Bay background I'm not sure he'd even go that high to get Freddie, and you could make the argument that they'd be better than they are today making moves from within - bringing Duran up and putting him in CF and moving Hernandez to 1B just might make them a lot better without trading for anybody, and there's a non-zero chance Casas is their 1B come next spring. Freddie would arguably make San Diego the best offense in baseball, but does Preller have the cajones to bench a guy making $20+ million for him when Hosmer is still under contract for four more years after this one? Just not sure I see it - he's nuts, but I'm just not sure anyone's THAT nuts. He knows no one's going to take Hosmer off his hands unless he pays that contract way down with a seriously significant prospect. Is he dumb enough to give up something like Hassell/Campusano/Abrams and Hosmer and roll the dice that he could re-sign Freddie? Even if he was, would AA actually be willing to take Hosmer back considering he costs you $15 million per for the next 4 years as he declines at a higher rate than Freddie will?

Well, Preller was dumb enough to give Hosmer that contract despite hiring Dave Cameron away from FG about a month after he wrote an article publicly stating Hosmer would be the worst FA signing of that offseason. Cameron was adamantly against that contract, wrote a popular article about it, and was hired by SD...who then signed Hosmer anyways.

I don't put anything past Preller, and if this season isn't going to result in a playoff berth (which appears the most likely outcome now), I would rather see some new talent acquired than watch Freeman lead the team to 75 wins. Even the mighty Yankees waived the white flag on a season when they traded Chapman to the Cubs.

 

[clvclv]

Well, Preller was dumb enough to give Hosmer that contract despite hiring Dave Cameron away from FG about a month after he wrote an article publicly stating Hosmer would be the worst FA signing of that offseason. Cameron was adamantly against that contract, wrote a popular article about it, and was hired by SD...who then signed Hosmer anyways.

I don't put anything past Preller, and if this season isn't going to result in a playoff berth (which appears the most likely outcome now), I would rather see some new talent acquired than watch Freeman lead the team to 75 wins. Even the mighty Yankees waived the white flag on a season when they traded Chapman to the Cubs.

It's admittedly hard for ANYONE to put anything past him, no doubt. I just think paying the type of prospect capital that would likely be required to convince AA to take Hosmer's money back while having to explain to fans that he traded the franchise cornerstone (while Acuna and Ozzie may very well be the franchise's most talented players, Freddie's still "the guy") for Eric Hosmer and a prospect is a pretty tough pill for either GM to swallow - and it even pushes the envelope Preller's already established. I'm just not sure banishing Hosmer to the bench (even if they can afford to do it for 2-3 months) wouldn't cause a pretty big problem in their clubhouse - by all reports, he's still their "glue guy" even though he isn't coming close to earning his money.

I never deal in absolutes so I'd never say "it can't happen", but that would be a whale of a deal for 2+ months of Freeman - and as loudly as he's voiced his preference to stay here they might just be getting a guy who's heartbroken and pouting rather than putting up his regular numbers. Unless they did an incredible job of keeping some injury completely under wraps, it's pretty tough to explain Freddie's 2021 start as something other than letting his contract situation affect his play. On top of that, they worked out Tatis' extension with the expectation that the money due Hosmer would drop precipitously following next season - does their ownership really have the money to go substantially over the cap to sign Freddie for 3-4 years following 2021? If not, you could argue that the return for Freeman as a pure rental would exceed the return Cashman got for Chapman.

What's going to be really interesting will be to hear the people in favor of trading Freddie now 2-3 years down the road - if AA doesn't hit a homerun with that return, the *itching will be unbearable. People are still whining about trading Tex when he wasn't going to re-sign under any circumstances and they weren't going to get anything for him. Outside of Preller (potentially) is there really a GM of a current contender out there that's even willing to give up a Top 50 prospect without being given a window to extend Freeman (making him a true rental)? The Chapman thing worked out for the Yankees, but it hasn't happened since.

That said, if Bloom will trade Casas for Freddie straight-up, I'm not sure there's any way AA could say "no" to giving them 72 hours to make Freddie happy. I just don't think any of the current GMs that specialize in the new math would ever do something like that.

 

[50PoundHead]

I wouldn't want Hosmer, but if the deal could somehow be made into a three-cornered enterprise, San Diego could conceivably unload Hosmer provided they sent a good chunk of change and mix a good prospect (or three) into a deal that would wrest Freeman from us. But no doubt Hosmer is a millstone around the neck of the Padres.

 

[Carp]

FF is a no doubt tag. So you'd have to get much more than you'd expect with the additional pick. Who is giving up a haul for half a year of a 1B? I'd do it in a video game, in real life, I'm not sure you can get him back if you trade him.

I don't think AA trades FF. They don't seem to have a relationship where they can do a wink wink deal and look to bring him back.

I do not see many scenarios where the Braves are the top bidder on a 4+ year FA deal for an impact guy. The only ones I can think of is a depressed market (Ozuna....ouch) or surplus at a position (SS this year).

Freeman would easily be the best player on the market if AA made him available. Rentals can still bring back a good bit if they are elite players. Machado trade was a prime example of that. I think we could easily get at least one top 50ish type of prospect for him, which would be worth more than the comp pick we'd be due.

 

[Southcack77]

I wouldn't want Hosmer, but if the deal could somehow be made into a three-cornered enterprise, San Diego could conceivably unload Hosmer provided they sent a good chunk of change and mix a good prospect (or three) into a deal that would wrest Freeman from us. But no doubt Hosmer is a millstone around the neck of the Padres.

Why would the Braves take back Hosmer, I wondered.

 

[zbhargrove]

Adam Eaton was released and is now a free agent... so even though there was a lot of speculation he was coming for Neslony... he is not.

 

[WaitingFor2017]

You may as well sign Eaton (if he wants) for league minimum (even if it’s until September call ups) just to buy more time for Pache/Waters since this season is lost.

 

[PawPawMaxwell]

Why would the Braves take back Hosmer, I wondered.

Highly highly unlikely. However. Hosmer is pretty mundane but not totally lost. Would be unusual to have a 1b at the bottom of the order but not unheard of. So, would you move FF for Hosmer, Abrams, 1 more prospect and money to cover Hosmer 22 salary?

 

[clvclv]

Why would the Braves take back Hosmer, I wondered.

Mainly - in the wildly crazy trade we were discussing - because Preller would probably need to get him completely out of their clubhouse if he were to make a deal for Freeman. The assumption is that it would potentially make it easier for both GMs to try to sell in the clubhouse.

Hosmer is their Freeman without the production - he's the guy they started their rebuild around. They have to ignore the fact he was a bad choice - Preller can't take the signing back. He's a big part of their clubhouse even if he's not producing, and some of the players might not love the fact that you're trading their unnamed "Captain" when they're winning even though he's a meh guy. They'd probably need to move his money to have any chance to extend Freddie, and even if they didn't they probably wouldn't see him as a DH option as they try to contend over the next few years.

From Atlanta's end, you don't lose that clubhouse leader presence even though you lose a substantial amount of production. If you get Abrams in the deal though, he takes over at SS next season and you take the $20 million you're not paying Freeman and Dansby and go sign Bryant to play LF (or 3B if you move Riley). AA's line to try to sell it to the players is "Freddie wanted more than Bryant, so we got you a 'winner' like Hosmer PLUS brought in Bryant and Abrams for the rest of the time we have Acuna and Ozzie."

Certainly not a deal that the vast majority of people would make, but if Preller's stupid enough to make that kind of all-in move and go for it he's probably going to have to pair one of Gore/Abrams/Campusano/Hassell with Hosmer to get out from under Hosmer. As far out there as all that is, it actually kinda fits for the Braves when you think about it. Abrams is the hometown guy to replace Dansby at SS so the fans don't whine (as much), but he's cheap, better, AND becomes your leadoff guy so you make Acuna more of a producer/3-hole hitter to lessen the blow of losing Freeman. Signing Bryant for 5 years instead of Freeman gives you a lot more flexibility since he can play all over the place, and you still have a LH-hitting 1B (albeit a marginal one) who is your rah-rah guy. At that point, you could make Waters your CF instead of Pache to give you a fourth LH bat in the lineup (counting Ozzie and with Harris and Franklin coming). You'd control everybody - including Fried, Anderson, Soroka, Ynoa, Davidson, Muller, Touki, Strider, Shuster, and Cusick through 2025.

 

[50PoundHead]

Why would the Braves take back Hosmer, I wondered.

They wouldn't. I was suggesting that the only way a trade involving Freeman to the Padres gets done would be to involve a third team to which the Padres would have to send dollars along (and probably a couple of prospects) along with sending whatever to the Braves. That would be extremely difficult, because Hosmer looks like toast. I don't know the Padres fiscal situation, but they have a nice stable of prospects that could sweeten the pot. That said, Hosmer is owed $60 million over the next four seasons and nobody is taking that on by themselves without substantial assistance from the Padres.

 

[clvclv]

At the end of the day - regardless of finances and contract situation - if AA trades Freeman in his prime, he's going to have to hit a no-doubt homerun with the deal. Even if he's not their most-talented player, he's still going to be an MVP candidate for 2-3 more years, he's a huge fan-favorite, and he's the clubhouse leader and team spokesman. This isn't like trading Murphy 8 years after he won his MVPs.

Think Nomar when Theo traded him to the Cubs.

 

[50PoundHead]

At the end of the day - regardless of finances and contract situation - if AA trades Freeman in his prime, he's going to have to hit a homerun with the deal. Even if he's not their most-talented player, he's still going to be an MVP candidate for 2-3 more years, he's a huge fan-favorite, and he's the clubhouse leader. This isn't like trading Murphy 8 years after he won his MVPs.

Think Nomar when Theo traded him to the Cubs.

Agree. I doubt Anthopoulos will trade him for a variety of reasons, but if he even entertains the offer, one has to think about what the Cubs sent the Yankees for Aroldis Chapman as the floor for negotiations.

 

[clvclv]

Agree. I doubt Anthopoulos will trade him for a variety of reasons, but if he even entertains the offer, one has to think about what the Cubs sent the Yankees for Aroldis Chapman as the floor for negotiations.

That might even be a bit of a low floor in this situation since Freddie's the legitimate face of the franchise like Nomar was.

For those who want to scream about Acuna as the best "player", no one's arguing that - he simply will never be "the guy" as long as Freddie is here and (as bad as this sounds) he needs a translator. Acuna is sort of A-Rod to Freddie's Jeter.

 

[PawPawMaxwell]

Good input from both of you. Now on to what is probably another futile query. Send Freddie to the Angels for Justin Upton and Jared Walsh. Walsh plays 1st and Upton projects to your DH next year at almost same money.

MLBTRs article has Angels and Padres contending and needing help plus the non mentioned Miniasan connection and Prellers charge ahead mode.