The Coronavirus, not the beer
- Thread starter Runnin
- Start date
tululush
New member
Lol Sturg doesn’t believe in suicides. It’s all a conspiracy.
nsacpi
Expects Yuge Games
Actually sturg is a big believer of covid (or covid prevention efforts) causing suicides. Looks like the causality can run in the other direction too. With the availability of vaccines, a good case can be made that the primary cause of death is suicide.
nsacpi
Expects Yuge Games
Does God Forgive Suicide?
There's no doubt that suicide is a terrible tragedy. For a Christian, it is an even greater tragedy because it is a waste of a life that God intended to use in a glorious way.
It would be difficult to argue that suicide is not a sin, for it is the taking of a human life, or to put it bluntly, murder. The Bible clearly expresses the sanctity of human life (Exodus 20:13; see also Deuteronomy 5:17; Matthew 19:18; Romans 13:9).
God is the author and giver of life (Acts 17:25). Scripture says God breathed the breath of life into humans (Genesis 2:7). Our lives are a gift from God. Thus, the giving and taking of life ought to remain in his sovereign hands (Job 1:21).
In Deuteronomy 30:11-20, you can hear the heart of God crying out for his people to choose life:
"Today I have given you the choice between life and death, between blessings and curses. Now I call on heaven and earth to witness the choice you make. Oh, that you would choose life, so that you and your descendants might live! You can make this choice by loving the Lord your God, obeying him, and committing yourself firmly to him. This is the key to your life...” (NLT)
https://www.learnreligions.com/suicide-and-the-bible-701953
bold added for emphasis
There's no doubt that suicide is a terrible tragedy. For a Christian, it is an even greater tragedy because it is a waste of a life that God intended to use in a glorious way.
It would be difficult to argue that suicide is not a sin, for it is the taking of a human life, or to put it bluntly, murder. The Bible clearly expresses the sanctity of human life (Exodus 20:13; see also Deuteronomy 5:17; Matthew 19:18; Romans 13:9).
God is the author and giver of life (Acts 17:25). Scripture says God breathed the breath of life into humans (Genesis 2:7). Our lives are a gift from God. Thus, the giving and taking of life ought to remain in his sovereign hands (Job 1:21).
In Deuteronomy 30:11-20, you can hear the heart of God crying out for his people to choose life:
"Today I have given you the choice between life and death, between blessings and curses. Now I call on heaven and earth to witness the choice you make. Oh, that you would choose life, so that you and your descendants might live! You can make this choice by loving the Lord your God, obeying him, and committing yourself firmly to him. This is the key to your life...” (NLT)
https://www.learnreligions.com/suicide-and-the-bible-701953
bold added for emphasis
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We know the vaccine prevents worse outcomes. The whole point is that it is not a panacea and those that are vaccinated CAN STILL CONTRACT AND SPREAD THE VIRUS.
It is those qualities that make mandates or incentives completely irrational.
nsacpi
Expects Yuge Games
why not post what % of people dying of covid in the UK (or anywhere for that matter) are unvaccinated...that seems relevant to me...but maybe not to you...DeSantis recently gave the numbers for Florida...i'll leave it to you to find the clip
Nsacpi what do you think it means for the transmissibility of those that are vaccinated if the majority of the country is vaccinated and only this small handful are getting sick enough to be in the hospital while also understanding the efficacy rate on preventing more than mild cases?
That isn't a personal decision? Everyone has access to the vaccine and those that are unable to get vaccinated have a lot of alternatives. Those same people are also at risk at the vaccinated population since they are too spreading the virus.
nsacpi
Expects Yuge Games
Of course it's a personal decision. Just like what we eat is a personal decision. But if some city or state decided to tax junk food that would be a wise policy. You've spoken up about the burdens obesity imposes on society. The rest of us have to pay their medical bills and their disability benefits. So we're entitled to devise policies such as a tax on junk food to lessen the externalities.
The parallel with the choice to vaccinate is almost the same. It is a personal decision. But it imposes social costs. People with covid become disabled in significant numbers. Their medical costs are born by society generally (either through higher insurance premia or other ways that the rest of us have to pay). So there is a social cost that can be remediated by policies such as subsidies or cash payments to those who chose to become vaccinated.
The cross section of people who are healthy and not vaccinated are not the ones driving up hospital costs. Go bark up another tree on that one.
nsacpi
Expects Yuge Games
The people getting seriously sick are the unvaccinated. DeSantis gave the numbers for Florida. It is what it is. So I am all for incentivizing people to get their shots. I prefer to use cold hard cash for this. It is the most simple and elegant way. But there are other ways, such as requiring a covid vaccine to fly commercial or to be in the military, etc etc.
And all those people have made the choice to not get vaccinated. We still know the majority that are in hospitals have co morbidities most notably obesity so I'm just surprised you're coming back with this argument.
Healthy unvaccinated people are not flooding hospitals. Pretending that they are is one of the most disingenuous things you've done in the past 5 years and thats saying a lot.
nsacpi
Expects Yuge Games
I respect that. And they should respect it if the rest of society decided to incentivize vaccines through cash payments or restrictions such as the ones I mentioned above.
If folks want to go out and protest a tax on junk food, that's their right. They can elect pro-obesity politicians if they want. And the unvaccinated have the right to do the same and can vote for pro-virus political leaders in the next elections.
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Just like you use race as the primary driver for outcomes as opposed to the true driver of economics you again are using unvaccinated as the primary driver of hospitalizations and thats just false. The fact you refuse to budge on that shows you lack the nuance to understand real world situations.
nsacpi
Expects Yuge Games
I will extend the analogy a little further. Not everyone who eats junk food is obese and imposes costs to society as a result of that. But we don't have an administratively clean way of taxing junk food only when it is consumed by obese people. So we tax junk food generally. Similarly, administratively it works better if we incentivize vaccination generally. We've been doing this for years with children as a requirement for attending school. The military has required a variety of vaccines for many years. None of this is new.
Besides some of the externalities of covid are imposed by young healthy people who do not need medical care. For example, the more people out there who are susceptible to being infected, the greater the chance a new more dangerous mutation takes place. That's regardless of the age and health status of the people who are unvaccinated.
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