TUESDAY MINORS FINAL 8/10/21; Langeliers, Franklin Blow Up

thethe said:
Do you move Franklin at all this year or just let him go level by level year by year?
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My song pretty much remains the same for most guys. I don't see any reason to move Franklin up. If KLaw's observation is that he needs work on pitch recognition, I don't see why he would move up. His power numbers are great, but he's been streaky (most players are) and he's probably best served by just leaving him where he is. Of course, I don't see these guys every day and so I happily leave those decisions to others. Minor league seasons are running until mid-September this season as opposed to ending on Labor Day as they did in previous years, so there is more than a month left in the AA season if they think he's ready for that challenge.

I only work on sparse and imperfect knowledge, but Vaughn Grissom would seem to be the guy to be promoted if anyone is going to be promoted this late in the season. He's done well in Augusta (although his power numbers aren't that great) and was at the alternate site last summer (which indicates some internal support for him). But given the disruptions created by the cancelling of last year's minor league seasons, I guess I'm even more committed to letting guys get their feet underneath them. But again, I have no background in player development, so I let those who have that background make the decision.
 
If you could get d'Arnaud back on a moderately priced one-year contract, like 1/7 or 1/8 or something, that would be ideal (assuming he comes back from the injury and plays reasonably well). I'm kind of skeptical that's a realistic option, though there's probably a lot of uncertainty around d'Arnaud at this point and it's hard to guess.

What would be great is if we could build a time machine, go back to 1999 and bring Greg Myers back into the future with us. That's the kind of guy we need -- cheap veteran, respected defensively, not useless with the bat, mostly a backup but capable of handling things as a starter on a short-term basis.
 
Russ2dollas said:
To AA's credit, it seems to have been clear that he had the budget pulled out from under him. I would not expect that again.

I expect them to sign a mediocre level player and let Contreras be the 60/40 75/25 starter. Langeliers will be in AAA and the back up option.

I don't see them investing in TDA. I would think TDA could get 2/20 or something like that. If not, it would be great to get him back. That said, We likely need to move money to FF and another bat vs catcher. I think most people think Contreras and SL can at least be top 20 in production.

I think i read our catcher production has been horrible all year and the wrc+ was in single digits since the break.

I think Contreras can be at least a league avg hitter. I think his defense will improve with practice on the new stance.
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I would not guess that TDA's price tag is higher now than two years ago after missing almost another complete season to injury.
 
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Enscheff said:
If this year has taught AA anything, it’s that he can’t neglect the bench for 100 games like he did this last season. Contending teams need legit MLB options on the bench to cover for injuries and/or young players faceplanting.

I expect to see a legit MLB catcher signed to pair with a rookie, and I expect that rookie to be Lango. That legit guy could be someone as good as TDA, or someone mediocre like Vogt.
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To expand on this...

Assuming the Braves get out from under future commitments to Ozuna, it's really hard for me to imagine AA doesn't pick up the Pederson/Duvall options for 2022. That gives you a really strong LF platoon without spending significantly more money than had already been earmarked for Ozuna - plus the potential to use Pederson in CF if Pache/Waters don't take the necessary steps forward to take over the position between now and next April WITHOUT any long-term payroll commitment. If they do, you wind up with a Pederson/Duvall/Waters/Pache LF/CF/DH grouping for roughly $18 million. That would make it much easier to spend a little extra on d'Arnaud if he'd accept a one year deal, and you'd also have him and Contreras as potential DH options with Langeliers waiting in the wings and probably ready to be called up at just about any time.

If Pache/Waters don't show significant improvement before the end of this season, you could then consider trying to convince one of Rosario or Soler to re-sign as your full-time DH/emergency corner OF on a one-year deal as well.
 
clvclv said:
To expand on this...

Assuming the Braves get out from under future commitments to Ozuna, it's really hard for me to imagine AA doesn't pick up the Pederson/Duvall options for 2022. That gives you a really strong LF platoon without spending significantly more money than had already been earmarked for Ozuna - plus the potential to use Pederson in CF if Pache/Waters don't take the necessary steps forward to take over the position between now and next April WITHOUT any long-term payroll commitment. If they do, you wind up with a Pederson/Duvall/Waters/Pache LF/CF/DH grouping for roughly $18 million. That would make it much easier to spend a little extra on d'Arnaud if he'd accept a one year deal, and you'd also have him and Contreras as potential DH options with Langeliers waiting in the wings and probably ready to be called up at just about any time.

If Pache/Waters don't show significant improvement before the end of this season, you could then consider trying to convince one of Rosario or Soler to re-sign as your full-time DH/emergency corner OF on a one-year deal as well.
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I think getting a reasonable CF is probably going to be at or near the top of the off-season's to-do list. Of all the bad and unforeseen things that have happened this season (and there have been many bad and unforeseen things), Pache's inability to man CF ranks right up there as the worst. Injuries happen, but Pache not being able to man CF really left us hanging. Heredia held the fort until he couldn't.
 
clvclv said:
Really big waste of resources if Langeliers' defense is as-advertised (and we have yet to see the first story that does anything other than rave about it and the way he handles a staff). Maybe you bring d'Arnaud back if he'll sign for $2-$3 million, but that's a big waste of money if it costs you anything close to what he's making right now. The Pitchers have been just fine with Contreras/A-Jax/Smith/Lucroy/Vogt working together on the fly with d'Arnaud out almost the entire season - if they have a full winter and camp to work with Langeliers and Contreras there's not much reason to think there will be an dropoff.

If d'Arnaud gets $5 million or more from someone else, that's money AA would probably be better off spending on a DH or Outfielder.
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Didn't you also think last offseason that bringing in a CF was a waste of resources with Pache set to take over CF this year? That played out so well.

I'm not saying that we have to bring back Little d. But expecting Shea or Contreras to the everyday catcher from day 1 seems like a plan that is destined to fail.
 
Southcack77 said:
I would not guess that TDA's price tag is higher now than two years ago after missing almost another complete season to injury.
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I hope not.
If we can get him back on a one year deal for 8 or less, that is amazing.

But he was really good last year. Maybe he'll finish this year hitting well. Most of catcher is horrible so he's likely an upgrade to 2/3 of the league or more.
 
I think Joc has a mutual option. Isn't the record on mutual options being picked up 0- billion? I don't think he'd pick up that option.

Duvall has a weird option as I recall. Something like 7 million for him but the buy out is 3 million. 7 million may seem like a lot for a 4th or 5th OF on a title contender. But we know we'll need him to play more than usual with Ronnie out. You can look at is as 4 million to have him play vs 3 million to not let him play.
 
Russ2dollas said:
I hope not.
If we can get him back on a one year deal for 8 or less, that is amazing.

But he was really good last year. Maybe he'll finish this year hitting well. Most of catcher is horrible so he's likely an upgrade to 2/3 of the league or more.
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Dont forget he really only played like 44 games last year. The mini season of 2020 is truly misleading.
 
PawPawMaxwell said:
Dont forget he really only played like 44 games last year. The mini season of 2020 is truly misleading.
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I know. And he's not the youngest.

But everyone else has to remember that most catchers are hot garbage and he's a good hitter for a catcher. Health has been his issue more than performance. Nobody is going to break the bank for him, but he could command a multi year deal.
 
Russ2dollas said:
I think Joc has a mutual option. Isn't the record on mutual options being picked up 0- billion? I don't think he'd pick up that option.

Duvall has a weird option as I recall. Something like 7 million for him but the buy out is 3 million. 7 million may seem like a lot for a 4th or 5th OF on a title contender. But we know we'll need him to play more than usual with Ronnie out. You can look at is as 4 million to have him play vs 3 million to not let him play.
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Pederson has a $10 MM mutual option with a $2.5 MM buyout.

Duvall has a $7 MM team option with a $3 MM buyout. The Marlins guaranteed Duvall $5 MM by paying him $2 MM for this year with the $3 MM buyout attached to the option.

Didn't read all your post when I replied. My guess is as it stands right now, Pederson would be more than happy to agree to $10 MM.
 
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Russ2dollas said:
I hope not.
If we can get him back on a one year deal for 8 or less, that is amazing.

But he was really good last year. Maybe he'll finish this year hitting well. Most of catcher is horrible so he's likely an upgrade to 2/3 of the league or more.
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What I'd like to see... Contreras, Langeliers, and Vogt (or similar). If Contreras and/or Langeliers are not ready, Vogt is waiting in the background. Hope we don't see him much, but if needed, we wouldn't have to trade for him. He is just insurance (hopefully). I think T'd will be too rich given the other needs the team will have.
 
Carp said:
Didn't you also think last offseason that bringing in a CF was a waste of resources with Pache set to take over CF this year? That played out so well.

I'm not saying that we have to bring back Little d. But expecting Shea or Contreras to the everyday catcher from day 1 seems like a plan that is destined to fail.
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I absolutely did - just like AA and Snitker and everyone else involved in naming him the Opening Day CF. Amazingly that's not the first time I've ever been wrong, and it *amn sure won't be the last time. FWIW, nothing in that statement says anything about Contreras and Langeliers as the only options behind the plate - that's what you want it to say. If you'd bother to read Enscheff's post that I quoted it clearly mentions bringing in another Catcher to pair with one of the kids - my point is that spending more than $5 million (which d'Arnaud will likely make) would seem to be a waste of resources, especially if the position becomes more of a true time-share. If the plan is for Langeliers or Contreras to catch half the games, that's a lot of money to tie up in a part-time guy.

Of course you're yet to have made a mistake in your life so there's no need for you to worry about being asked about those.
 
Russ2dollas said:
I hope not.
If we can get him back on a one year deal for 8 or less, that is amazing.

But he was really good last year. Maybe he'll finish this year hitting well. Most of catcher is horrible so he's likely an upgrade to 2/3 of the league or more.
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Short season last year followed by an injury washout year? Maybe because he's a catcher, but I don't think he's really changed any perception. He can hit, he can't stay healthy.
 
50PoundHead said:
Pederson has a $10 MM mutual option with a $2.5 MM buyout.

Duvall has a $7 MM team option with a $3 MM buyout. The Marlins guaranteed Duvall $5 MM by paying him $2 MM for this year with the $3 MM buyout attached to the option.

Didn't read all your post when I replied. My guess is as it stands right now, Pederson would be more than happy to agree to $10 MM.
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Duvall's is a mutual option as well I think.
 
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