The Coronavirus, not the beer

We should now discuss the child hospitalization numbers but this time with the appropriate lens.

Lockdowns and restrictions are killing people.
 
Vaccinated Democratic Counties Are Leading the Economic Recovery

Data show America’s output is concentrated in counties that Biden won—which are better protected against delta.

With Covid-19 cases once again rising across the country, the U.S. is struggling to curb the latest, delta-driven surge, as hospitalizations and deaths have steadily climbed. But at least so far, the economy has proved highly resilient. There are many reasons for this, ranging from generous stimulus checks to the Federal Reserve’s commitment to buying bonds and holding interest rates low.

But some interesting new data on the overlap of electoral politics and economic dynamism suggest another reason: The geography of America’s economic engine is heavily concentrated in counties that Joe Biden won in 2020. These counties are much more heavily vaccinated than the rest of the country and thus better able to withstand the economic effects of Covid’s delta variant...

The 520 counties Biden won account for fully 71% of U.S. gross domestic product, while the 2,564 that Trump carried produced just 29%. In other words, America’s economic engine is bluer than ever.
 
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nsacpi said:
In the United States, there were few riots, but there were lawsuits. The most important case came out of Cambridge, in 1905. The Supreme Court considered a Massachusetts law that empowered cities’ boards of health to mandate vaccination of all residents if they found it “necessary for the public health or safety.” After an outbreak of a virulent strain of smallpox, the Cambridge board determined that vaccination was “necessary for the speedy extermination of the disease” and required all residents to receive the vaccine. A pastor from Sweden, who claimed that he had been made sick by a vaccine as a child, refused and was criminally convicted and fined. He challenged the law as a violation of due process, arguing that compulsory vaccination was “hostile to the inherent right of every freeman to care for his own body and health in such way as to him seems best, and . . . nothing short of an assault upon his person.”

The Court, in Jacobson v. Massachusetts, disagreed, reciting the principle that individual liberty is not absolute in the face of “the common good,” and that “real liberty for all” depends on restraining individual exercises of liberty that harm others. The Court, as Justice John Marshall Harlan wrote, was therefore “unwilling to hold it to be an element in the liberty secured by the Constitution of the United States that one person, or a minority of persons, residing in any community and enjoying the benefits of its local government, should have the power thus to dominate the majority” that acts through the state’s authority to protect health and safety. The Court therefore held that a state had legal authority to require vaccinations. Seventeen years later, it also held that neither due process nor equal protection prohibited a San Antonio ordinance making vaccination a condition of children’s attendance in schools.

https://www.newyorker.com/news/our-...ernment-impose-a-national-vaccination-mandate
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If it comes down to it I will go to jail rather than get the vaccine and I would love the chance to test it in front of a jury. I will get the vaccine on one condition. That if it kills me someone goes to prison for murder. To be clear I have no fear the vaccine would kill me. My point is that you cant tell me I have no choice but to take the vaccine but claim no legal responsibility if it kills me.



What I am protesting is the "general welfare" clause of the constitution they will use to justify this. Let me tell you the US government has a very bad record when it comes to the general welfare clause. Beyond that science experts and officials can be bullied and intimidated by the US government to say whatever they need in order to justify the general welfare clause. My first example will be marijuana prohibition. Marijuana has been used as medicine since 400 AD and was in the US pharmacopoeia from 1850 until the marijuana tax act of 1937.
 
cajunrevenge said:
If it comes down to it I will go to jail rather than get the vaccine and I would love the chance to test it in front of a jury. I will get the vaccine on one condition. That if it kills me someone goes to prison for murder. To be clear I have no fear the vaccine would kill me. My point is that you cant tell me I have no choice but to take the vaccine but claim no legal responsibility if it kills me.



What I am protesting is the "general welfare" clause of the constitution they will use to justify this. Let me tell you the US government has a very bad record when it comes to the general welfare clause. Beyond that science experts and officials can be bullied and intimidated by the US government to say whatever they need in order to justify the general welfare clause. My first example will be marijuana prohibition. Marijuana has been used as medicine since 400 AD and was in the US pharmacopoeia from 1850 until the marijuana tax act of 1937.
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That seems like a dumb point to make. The only test you are making involves your luck and your immune system.
 
cajunrevenge said:
Give me liberty or give me death.
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I agree up to a point. I think mandates for attendance at a school, serving in the military, commercial air travel, eating out, going to a movie, or an employer mandate are pretty specifically tailored. The choice should be vaccinate and give those things up. I wouldn't make the choice vaccinate or go to jail. Or vaccinate or have your dog shot.

You can have your liberty and freedom of choice. But the price of that you bear for that choice should have a relation to the costs that fall on society from the choices you make.

It is interesting that in the past we've had imprisonment as a punishment for not complying with a vaccine mandate. I could see some conditions (if you combine ebola's lethality with the transmissibility of chicken pox) where that might be justified. But I don't think we are in those conditions and as far as I know no jurisdiction (in this country or elsewhere) is looking at imprisonment as part of enforcement for a vaccine mandate.
 
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Vaccinated people spread and contract the virus at the same rates.

You still have yet to explain why any of your mandates matter with that KNOWN fact.
 
thethe said:
Vaccinated people spread and contract the virus at the same rates.

You still have yet to explain why any of your mandates matter with that KNOWN fact.
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Positivity rates in the five states with the highest vaccination rates

Vermont 4%
Connecticut 4%
Massachusetts 3%
Maine 5%
Rhode Island 3%

Percent of tests coming back positive for five lowest vaccination states

Mississipi 19%
Alabama 22%
Wyoming 8%
Idaho 20%
West Virginia 12%
 
nsacpi said:
Positivity rates in the five states with the highest vaccination rates

Vermont 4%
Connecticut 4%
Massachusetts 3%
Maine 5%
Rhode Island 3%

Percent of tests coming back positive for five lowest vaccination states

Mississipi 19%
Alabama 22%
Wyoming 8%
Idaho 20%
West Virginia 12%
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Great. So I guess you agree that masks don’t work using this logic.
 
thethe said:
Great. So I guess you agree that masks don’t work using this logic.
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There are pairwise comparisons of jurisdictions that are otherwise similar but differ in mask wearing or mask mandates. Generally they point to the conclusion that masks make a difference. The most recent one I know of involves two neighboring school districts in Texas.
 
nsacpi said:
There are pairwise comparisons of jurisdictions that are otherwise similar but differ in mask wearing or mask mandates. Generally they point to the conclusion that masks make a difference. The most recent one I know of involves two neighboring school districts in Texas.
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Can you show me your neighboring comparison then in what you posted?
 
Well, don't tell anyone in Idaho they are in crisis because they don't know it. They are all outside drinking, eating, hiking, and rafting. It was down right awesome there. Probably the most dramatic state I've been to scenery wise.

Boise is a great city to visit.
 
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