The Coronavirus, not the beer

The evidence showed they significantly reduced the spread of Alpha but the data is still incomplete for Delta. At this point it does look very likely that the vaccines are less effective at stopping the spread of Delta though they still do likely prevent some spread. However, the vaccines remain highly effective at preventing severe illness.

Here's a great explanation:

https://www.npr.org/2021/07/31/1023243846/q-a-whats-different-about-the-delta-variant

This explains how Delta is infecting vaccinated people but why the infections aren't as bad and why there are any fewer serious infections among the vaccinated.

Talking about the decreased serious infections for vaccinated people is irrelevant to the discussion on whether or not they are spreading and contracting at the same rates.

The Delta variant is producing the same viral loads in vaccinated and unvaccinated.

But we should also completely ignore how vulnerable vaccinated people are when the efficacy wears after the 2-4 month period.

Natural immunity is the only way to go for the healthy population.
 
Talking about the decreased serious infections for vaccinated people is irrelevant to the discussion on whether or not they are spreading and contracting at the same rates.

The Delta variant is producing the same viral loads in vaccinated and unvaccinated.

But we should also completely ignore how vulnerable vaccinated people are when the efficacy wears after the 2-4 month period.

Natural immunity is the only way to go for the healthy population.

Go have everyone in New York cough in your face if you're so confident in your natural immunity.
 
Go have everyone in New York cough in your face if you're so confident in your natural immunity.

I would not have any concern with this.

I've never avoided germs my entire life.

Sorry you don't believe in science.

Natural immunity is at worst 10x better than vaccination.
 
I would not have any concern with this.

I've never avoided germs my entire life.

Sorry you don't believe in science.

Natural immunity is at worst 10x better than vaccination.

Sorry you don't believe in science. Both are superior to one or neither and vaccinated is superior to unvaccinated.
 
Show your work

i already posted data on the chasm in infection rates between the 5 states with the highest vaccination rates and the 5 states with the lowest vaccination rates

i'm sorry it's not good enough for you

somehow i suspect no amount of data would persuade you
 
your turn to show your work on any of the above assertions

I said it was not conclusive yet as opposed to your Deza posting infection graphs of different states that somehow shows vaccinations work but a similar comparison has no bearing on mask efficacy. I also linked the study....

I see you.
 
i already posted data on the chasm in infection rates between the 5 states with the highest vaccination rates and the 5 states with the lowest vaccination rates

i'm sorry it's not good enough for you

somehow i suspect no amount of data would persuade you

An actual lab based study would help....

But you ignore things like "SAME VIRAL LOADS" so I don't think it'll matter to you either way.
 
Talking about the decreased serious infections for vaccinated people is irrelevant to the discussion on whether or not they are spreading and contracting at the same rates.

The Delta variant is producing the same viral loads in vaccinated and unvaccinated.

But we should also completely ignore how vulnerable vaccinated people are when the efficacy wears after the 2-4 month period.

Natural immunity is the only way to go for the healthy population.

And if you read the interview you would see it discusses this. First, among vaccinated Delta is getting a root in the nose and throat but your body knows it and is attacking it and destroying it faster than with someone who isn't vaccinated. This means you're contagious for a shorter period of time. There are also those who had a very strong immune reaction to the vaccine that Delta can't even get a foothold on. So there is likely a reduction of the spread.

But the vaccines could be completely ineffective at stopping the spread and they would still be advisable. If they did nothing else than drastically reduce the odds of severe illness then they'd still be insanely beneficial.

As for the decreasing efficacy, it's appearing that what drops is the efficacy against infection while efficacy against severe disease is remaining strong. How much of this decline is due to time and how much is due to Delta being better at causing a mild infection in vaccinated people isn't clear. In any event, the efficacy against severe infections seems to be holding up.

Natural immunity most likely offers stronger immunity than the vaccine alone. However, if the vaccine doesn't prevent you from getting infected with Covid but prevents severe illness then wouldn't it make sense to get vaccinated, guard against sever illness, but still reap the benefits of a natural infection?
 
An actual lab based study would help....

But you ignore things like "SAME VIRAL LOADS" so I don't think it'll matter to you either way.

if highly vaccinated areas have much lower infection rates than lightly vaccinated areas, that's pretty strong evidence
 
if highly vaccinated areas have much lower infection rates than lightly vaccinated areas, that's pretty strong evidence

If highly mask compliant areas have the same infection curves as low mask compliant areas, thats pretty strong evidence.
 
And if you read the interview you would see it discusses this. First, among vaccinated Delta is getting a root in the nose and throat but your body knows it and is attacking it and destroying it faster than with someone who isn't vaccinated. This means you're contagious for a shorter period of time. There are also those who had a very strong immune reaction to the vaccine that Delta can't even get a foothold on. So there is likely a reduction of the spread.

But the vaccines could be completely ineffective at stopping the spread and they would still be advisable. If they did nothing else than drastically reduce the odds of severe illness then they'd still be insanely beneficial.

As for the decreasing efficacy, it's appearing that what drops is the efficacy against infection while efficacy against severe disease is remaining strong. How much of this decline is due to time and how much is due to Delta being better at causing a mild infection in vaccinated people isn't clear. In any event, the efficacy against severe infections seems to be holding up.

Natural immunity most likely offers stronger immunity than the vaccine alone. However, if the vaccine doesn't prevent you from getting infected with Covid but prevents severe illness then wouldn't it make sense to get vaccinated, guard against sever illness, but still reap the benefits of a natural infection?

My understanding is that being vaccinated is preventing the T-Cells from learning how to combat the virus. I'm not going to state that as a fact but will try to find where I've read that but ultimately this is the rational on the now 5 month booster shot. Your body is not learning how to fight COVID>

And again, I am pro-vaccine for at-risk people. But to get true herd immunity healthy people need to be exposed to the virus naturally.
 
I hope more comes out about these two senior officials that resigned from the FDA.

Rumors are they didn't like the politics on the approval of the Pfizer vaccine.
 
My understanding is that being vaccinated is preventing the T-Cells from learning how to combat the virus. I'm not going to state that as a fact but will try to find where I've read that but ultimately this is the rational on the now 5 month booster shot. Your body is not learning how to fight COVID>

And again, I am pro-vaccine for at-risk people. But to get true herd immunity healthy people need to be exposed to the virus naturally.

It's memory B-cells I believe that are what you body needs to learn to fight an infection. With the vaccine, one shot doesn't produce many. That's why a second is needed. If you've had Covid, only one shot is needed to produce a strong response further bolstering immunity.

https://www.science.org/doi/10.1126/sciimmunol.abi6950

"Two shots of the mRNA vaccines were needed to induce peak antibody and memory B cell responses against SARS-CoV-2 in naïve patients, whereas only one shot induced peak responses in convalescent patients. "
 
It's memory B-cells I believe that are what you body needs to learn to fight an infection. With the vaccine, one shot doesn't produce many. That's why a second is needed. If you've had Covid, only one shot is needed to produce a strong response further bolstering immunity.

https://www.science.org/doi/10.1126/sciimmunol.abi6950

"Two shots of the mRNA vaccines were needed to induce peak antibody and memory B cell responses against SARS-CoV-2 in naïve patients, whereas only one shot induced peak responses in convalescent patients. "

B-Cell immunity is the weaker version. T-Cell immunity is what allows the body to hold natural immunity for years.
 
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