TLHLIM
- Thread starter sturg33
- Start date
striker42
Well-known member
It's absolutely ridiculous. If you redefine one word you have to create a word to replace it. If you don't want "biologically female" to mean someone with two X chromosomes, you're going to have to come up with a new term. Genetically female? Two X Person?
Whatever you come up with doesn't matter. You've just replaced the word you were upset about with another word that means the same thing. It's a linguistic shell game.
Jaw
It's OVER 5,000!
This makes more sense and I think we're making progress. I believe the communication issue might be helped by looking more closely at the term.
The word genocide was created in the 1940s in reaction to Hitler's treatment of the Jews. Genocide was derived from the Greek genos ('race,' 'tribe,' or 'nation') and the Latin cide ('killing.')
So while the former political system in South Africa was a horrible thing, it wasn't genocide. Rwanda, the former Czechoslovakia, and China's treatment of the Uighurs are situations that do fit the term.
nsacpi
Expects Yuge Games
Btw, the British strategy against the Afrikaans during the Second Boer War verged on genocide. Basically it was an application of Sherman's ideas of total war to break the will of a people to continue fighting. My great grandfather fought on the British side in the First Boer War and my grandfather in the Second Boer War. For me this is family history.
Handsome devils they were.
Handsome devils they were.
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nsacpi
Expects Yuge Games
... flush out guerrillas in a series of systematic drives, organised like a sporting shoot, with success defined in a weekly 'bag' of killed, captured and wounded, and to sweep the country bare of everything that could give sustenance to the guerrillas, including women and children ... It was the clearance of civilians—uprooting a whole nation—that would come to dominate the last phase of the war.
— Pakenham, The Boer War
The term "concentration camp" was used to describe camps operated by the British in South Africa during this conflict in the years 1900–1902, and the term grew in prominence during this period. As Boer farms were destroyed by the British under their "Scorched Earth" policy—including the systematic destruction of crops and slaughtering of livestock, the burning down of homesteads and farms —to prevent the Boers from resupplying from a home base, many tens of thousands of women and children were forcibly moved into the concentration camps. Eventually, there were a total of 45 tented camps built for Boer internees and 64 for black Africans. Of the 28,000 Boer men captured as prisoners of war, 25,630 were sent overseas and either freed or enslaved within civil societies. The vast majority of Boers remaining in the local camps were women and children. Around 26,370 Boer women and children were to perish in these concentration camps.
sounds perilously close to genocide to me...practiced by one group of whites against another group of whites in southern Africa...history is nothing if not ironic
— Pakenham, The Boer War
The term "concentration camp" was used to describe camps operated by the British in South Africa during this conflict in the years 1900–1902, and the term grew in prominence during this period. As Boer farms were destroyed by the British under their "Scorched Earth" policy—including the systematic destruction of crops and slaughtering of livestock, the burning down of homesteads and farms —to prevent the Boers from resupplying from a home base, many tens of thousands of women and children were forcibly moved into the concentration camps. Eventually, there were a total of 45 tented camps built for Boer internees and 64 for black Africans. Of the 28,000 Boer men captured as prisoners of war, 25,630 were sent overseas and either freed or enslaved within civil societies. The vast majority of Boers remaining in the local camps were women and children. Around 26,370 Boer women and children were to perish in these concentration camps.
sounds perilously close to genocide to me...practiced by one group of whites against another group of whites in southern Africa...history is nothing if not ironic
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Jaw
It's OVER 5,000!
Sounds a lot like Sherman's March to me, although the women and children in concentration camps presumably had access to food, which is more than Sherman's victims had after he torched their homes and crops and took or slaughtered their livestock.
Were the women and children deliberately killed in those concentration camps, or did they die of malnutrition and disease like prisoners of pretty much every war up to that point?
nsacpi
Expects Yuge Games
Yes, Sherman introduced the idea of total war (see my post just above the one you quoted). The British borrowed from it. The camp internees died of starvation and disease. And exposure to the elements. There are parts of South Africa that are at pretty high elevations and you don't want to spend the winter exposed to the elements. Food rations to the women and children depended on whether the men in their family were still fighting. If they were still fighting, the food ration was less.
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To be fair, I don’t think this is a common view of progressives. I think most people understand there are actual genetic differences between the two sexes, but consider there to be a difference between sex and gender. There will be outliers out there that push weird definitions, but that’s all those are.
Jaw
It's OVER 5,000!
I think this is accurate, today. I personally keep an eye on this fringe social progressive stuff because it typically becomes mainstream progressive within a few years.
DoMA wasn't that long ago. Eddie Murphy did a skit in a movie making fun of the absurdity of reparations. The idea that "transvestites" should have protected rights to dress as a member of the opposite sex at work would have gotten you laughed at 15 years ago. Trying to convince someone there are more than two genders would have been impossible anywhere not on a college campus a decade ago. The push for married groups of more than two is well underway despite some of us being called ridiculous for predicting it after Obergefell.
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Importantly, none of those are questions of basic science. They’re questions of how we should handle complex social issues or what freedoms we should allow for people. The obvious difference is the question of gender, but that is really still more of a social question than a scientific one.
57Brave
Well-known member
Btw, the British strategy against the Afrikaans during the Second Boer War verged on genocide. Basically it was an application of Sherman's ideas of total war to break the will of a people to continue fighting. My great grandfather fought on the British side in the First Boer War and my grandfather in the Second Boer War. For me this is family history.
Handsome devils they were.
The coin of the realm in desert living is water. Whoever controls the flow of water is the power.
Those opposed to the word genocide when discussing Israeli/ Palestinian relations might want to research water.
On the other hand
When Freddie first came up I read" Chipper adopted Freeman"
Are those opposed to the word genocide discussing Israel also of a mind that Chipper " adopted" Freddie ?
Most of us understand how those two words are used
Jaw
It's OVER 5,000!
I think the point 57 is making is that Chipper didn't adopt Freddie, and Israel isn't committing genocide, and people using those terms in those cases aren't using them accurately. He points out two great examples of terms being used for something they don't mean. It's really no different than if I said I was going to eat a glass of water, or swim a few laps around the football field. I think this has been a really positive discussion.
Fortunately we have all learned from the Right that statues are meant to be a recording of history and it shouldn’t matter what they did during their lives.