Ukraine

BedellBrave said:
Again, I think the best thing for me to do, while not being a fan of the President for so many reasons, is to still fervently pray for him and his leadership and wisdom.
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Agree and I did try to pray for and root for W while he was president, but I felt like my prayers were a little superfluous. By the way those of you who say Obama isn't good on foreign policy, you certainly are correct or at least very close to it. He did allow the navy folks to get the Somali pirates and the he allow the Navy SEALS to get Bin Laden, that's about it. My only issue is I hate the game of "gotcha" politics and the Repubs don't deserve another chance. The current administration is bad IMO, the Repubs make things a whole lot worse for everyone, except their real base.
 
The problem I see is that there still is no solution coming from the hawkish elements of the political community, especially those on the right.
 
50PoundHead said:
The problem I see is that there still is no solution coming from the hawkish elements of the political community, especially those on the right.
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The reality is that there's not much daylight between the parties concerning specific actions. That's why the partisan sniping strikes me as odd.
 
Julio3000 said:
The reality is that there's not much daylight between the parties concerning specific actions. That's why the partisan sniping strikes me as odd.
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What I have noticed in the early going is that the rightish hawks are sending out women (Palin, Pletka) to sound the trumpets in an attempt to make Obama look effeminate and weak.
 
50PoundHead said:
What I have noticed in the early going is that the rightish hawks are sending out women (Palin, Pletka) to sound the trumpets in an attempt to make Obama look effeminate and weak.
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Maybe because he is?

Pres. Carter should be proud of him. Those two make a cute and good couple.
 
50PoundHead said:
What I have noticed in the early going is that the rightish hawks are sending out women (Palin, Pletka) to sound the trumpets in an attempt to make Obama look effeminate and weak.
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That's an interesting point.

Palin should be back home prepping for the imminent invasion of Alaska.

Regardless of one's opinion of Obama's foreign policy, I'd think it would be difficult to trust Republicans on the issue. They—particularly the neocon variety (coughDaniellePletka)—are like the kids who broke into the liquor cabinet and had a party while the parents were out of town. They should be on restrictions for a little while longer.

While people fuss about (ehrmagawd worse-than-Watergate) Benghazi or Obama's apparent dithering on Syria, they would do well to remember who concocted a massive cover story (i.e. lie) to start a war of choice that cost trillions, alienated important partners (not least Turkey) and ultimately strengthened the biggest strategic problem child in the region, Iran. Those are the costs in terms of statecraft. For the purpose of this post I'm ignoring the massive human toll of the war and its aftermath.

Obama was elected in part because Americans were comfortable with the idea of a more restrained foreign policy. Personally, I don't think "restrained" should mean passive, weak, or hesitant to open the soft power toolbox. I will be interested to see how the administration moves on that. But I am not comfortable with preemptively judging Obama on this issue without considering the enormous ****up that was created by some of the very people who are speaking up against him.
 
Julio3000 said:
That's an interesting point.

Palin should be back home prepping for the imminent invasion of Alaska.

Regardless of one's opinion of Obama's foreign policy, I'd think it would be difficult to trust Republicans on the issue. They—particularly the neocon variety (coughDaniellePletka)—are like the kids who broke into the liquor cabinet and had a party while the parents were out of town. They should be on restrictions for a little while longer.

While people fuss about (ehrmagawd worse-than-Watergate) Benghazi or Obama's apparent dithering on Syria, they would do well to remember who concocted a massive cover story (i.e. lie) to start a war of choice that cost trillions, alienated important partners (not least Turkey) and ultimately strengthened the biggest strategic problem child in the region, Iran. Those are the costs in terms of statecraft. For the purpose of this post I'm ignoring the massive human toll of the war and its aftermath.

Obama was elected in part because Americans were comfortable with the idea of a more restrained foreign policy. Personally, I don't think "restrained" should mean passive, weak, or hesitant to open the soft power toolbox. I will be interested to see how the administration moves on that. But I am not comfortable with preemptively judging Obama on this issue without considering the enormous ****up that was created by some of the very people who are speaking up against him.
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I would put a THANKS on that but had to pull it on your next paragraph. We know Putin thinks Obama is weak and won't do anything and he is probably right. We have no teeth any more. The world look at us and we just whimper with indecision.

Chimpy messed up the previous eight years, but Obama should have strengthen us, not weakened us after he was elected. You cannot show any weakness to your sworn enemies and we have.
 
Obviously Reagan failed to truly end the Soviet Union if they've been hungry to stay alive since then under Russia.
 
AerchAngel said:
Palin = Tin Man

but..... even a squirrel can get lucky and find a nut.

She was right, this time.

And yes Obama is like Carter, very weak in response when getting bullied.
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Do you want to him to bomb Russia? You don't know what's going on behind the scene. It's almost like this is the Cold War in reverse, when it was purported that Reagan's defense build-up crippled the Soviets (who were in decline anyway). So we beef up the defense budget and go ever deeper into deficit, which would further cripple our economy?

I think you have confused keeping one's powder dry with weakness.
 
50PoundHead said:
Do you want to him to bomb Russia? You don't know what's going on behind the scene. It's almost like this is the Cold War in reverse, when it was purported that Reagan's defense build-up crippled the Soviets (who were in decline anyway). So we beef up the defense budget and go ever deeper into deficit, which would further cripple our economy?

I think you have confused keeping one's powder dry with weakness.
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I have no idea what the mainstream conservatives want. I think they want to just go flat out war into Russia. Don't think most of them know that Crimea was ethnically russian already and just want an excuse to show our big d--k diplomacy.
 
KeithLockhart said:
Don't think most of them know that Crimea was ethnically russian already and just want an excuse to show our big d--k diplomacy.
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That still doesn't give Russia an excuse to invade a sovereign nation.

Do you think Putin's actions were justified?
 
Concerning US response to this… there are a limited number of options that we can reasonably undertake here. Best I can tell, there is pretty broad, bipartisan agreement as to what they are. Maybe we should wait and see before deciding that all is lost.

Suggesting that Putin has been emboldened by US/European reticence MAY be correct, but it's still supposition. A bellicose posture over the last several years might just as well have led to a different unsatisfactory outcome. Pretty much every drop of ink that's been spilled about this is partisan sniping in the space between deliberation and action.

If Russia ends up prying away Crimea, it will get used as a partisan stick to whack Obama with. Still, considering that the groundwork for this has been laid over the last decade or so (to say nothing of the previous decades), I have not seen a coherent case for how a [insert generic Republican here] administration would have forestalled it.
 
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