Absolutely not justified. It still makes sense as to what is going on and isn't a surprise. Crimea is embracing Russia. Only solution is split east west or Crimea is absorbed officially by Russia.
Ukraine
- Thread starter Krgrecw
- Start date
Absolutely not justified. It still makes sense as to what is going on and isn't a surprise. Crimea is embracing Russia. Only solution is split east west or Crimea is absorbed officially by Russia.
zitothebrave
Connoisseur of Minors
But that should be handled by the people in the nation, not interfered with by outside forces.
Mhm.
I do think US has a responsibility to help diplomatically. Not via military intervention
In either of those scenarios Putin wins.
I really don't think anybody is advocating for that kind of show of force, even the warhawks. Putting US troops in the Ukraine would be strategically suicidal.
Julio3000
<B>A Chip Off the Old Rock</B>
For the sake of argument, Hawk, in what plausible situation does Putin not win and—short of a time machine back to the post-WWII USSR—through what US action could this situation have been avoided?
So what do the Hawks want? We put troops it's a sign of war
Obama travels there its war, we send Kerry which is the best diplomatic option. Rest of major leaders in Europe on our side. Obama is going for the sanctions and isolation thing and I don't think many think that's good enough. Every scenario Obama does he is called weak unless he does something via force.
jpx7
Very Flirtatious, but Doubts What Love Is.
Putin doesn't win if he withdraws from Crimea. In fact, he loses -- although the posturing in Moscow will be much along the lines of 'Mission Accomplished'.
The situation could've potentially been avoided by more US engagement abroad, especially in Europe.
yeezus
It's OVER 5,000!
Crimea is largely pro-Russia, how exactly is he not going to take it?
What kind of engagement are you suggesting? Putin was not going to listen to us. He knows he can try for Crimea, and that it's not worth us trying to stop him.
This was borderline unavoidable.
Exactly. Any pre intervention actions would of been a sign of aggression to Putin and make him do it either way.
Obama is doing the right thing -- ramping up rhetoric, currying favor domestically, and sending his Secretary of State directly into the conflict zone. The Obama administration is being uncharacteristically aggressive. If you oppose foreign entanglements, then you probably shouldn't support what the President is doing right now.
I don't understand what you mean. Should Mexico be allowed to invade New Mexico because the state is largely pro-Mexican?
Putin is not going to take Crimea (or the Ukraine) because it isn't his to take. Don't forget, Russia has been in Crimea for months handing out Russian passports and basically constructing a valid reason to wade into the country.
This situation was entirely avoidable. A proactive relationship with the Kremlin would've been a good start. The US could actually benefit a great deal from a healthy closeness with Moscow.
Which is fine but Putin is running Moscow.
Putin is an incredibly savvy businessman and politician.
He's not Stalin. This isn't the Soviet Union.
yeezus
It's OVER 5,000!
Are we really going to compare Mexico and New Mexico to Russia and Crimea? The two situations are vastly different.
A majority of Crimea wants to be part of Russia.
Putin does not act rationally in the least.
Julio3000
<B>A Chip Off the Old Rock</B>
Would withdrawal alone be a loss, or would it have to be withdrawal with a full status quo ante situation wrt Crimea's status (not leaving a separatist puppet government, et al)? i'm just trying to sort out what we can realistically expect/effect.
What do you mean, specifically, about action in Europe that could have prevented this?
I have to, because that's how stunningly ludicrous invading a sovereign country is (in modern times).
I also want to address the notion that a majority of Crimeans desire to break away and join Russia ... they don't -- yes, the region is compromised primarily of ethnic Russians, but there is no universal wish for separatism. As 50 brought up a few pages back, these poor souls just want stability.
jpx7
Very Flirtatious, but Doubts What Love Is.
Stalin was an incredibly savvy personality and politician.
At this point, Putin can only dream of those fell heights—but I do think he entertains the dream.