zitothebrave
Connoisseur of Minors
Don't know what Terdo is, is he Eric Hinske (what I think is most likely) a good bench player. Or is he someone who can hit enough to make up for his defensive issues.
Terdoslavich
- Thread starter nsacpi
- Start date
nsacpi
Expects Yuge Games
There are lots of valuable players out there who are not great at any particular position defensively. I'll throw out a name for everyone to chew on: Michael Cuddyer. I don't know whether Terdoslavich will have that kind of career or not. But I wouldn't dismiss it out of hand.
nsacpi
Expects Yuge Games
Thing is injuries happen every season. The last few years, Heyward has been on the DL more than once. Freeman has had issues with his eyes, oblique and hand. Justin Upton missed time last year with a hand injury and has a calf injury now. There is nothing wrong with having a good hitting player on the bench who can spell all three. I don't even mind having two (Gattis and Terdoslavich). If Gattis becomes our starting catching, it absolutely makes sense to have a strong hitter be available to fill in at first and corner outfield.
Cuddyer himself had to wait a couple years as a bench player before getting his shot as a full-time regular. Prado went through the same process. Good bench players are something to treasure.
Maybe it's similar to you saying Francouer would be an MVP?
Yeah, that was my best one for sure!
As long as you can acknowledge that you get some wrong as well then we're good. None of us are expert major league scouts. Definitive statements about a player doing something or not doing something is silly.
Will Terdo probably turn into a solid MLB regular? Nope. Then again, Gattis "probably" won't either. The man is 26, has under 200 MLB ABs, a .310 OBP, and good power. Everyone thought Simmons was going to be valuable on both sides of the ball based on a decent showing at the plate last year, and he has pretty much dashed all those hopes with his poor hitting this year.
The point is that an organization keeps guys like these 3 because they are cheap useful players. In fact, the chances are pretty high none of them will even stay in Atlanta long enough to be offered a FA contract after 6 years of service. At some point arbitration will "probably" make them too expensive to be worth keeping around.
Mediocre MLB players are replaced every single year by cheaper and younger mediocre players. It won't be any different in a few years with Gattis, Simmons and Terdo.
The point is that an organization keeps guys like these 3 because they are cheap useful players. In fact, the chances are pretty high none of them will even stay in Atlanta long enough to be offered a FA contract after 6 years of service. At some point arbitration will "probably" make them too expensive to be worth keeping around.
Mediocre MLB players are replaced every single year by cheaper and younger mediocre players. It won't be any different in a few years with Gattis, Simmons and Terdo.
I get being conservative with projections but I think mediocare major league players for Simmons/Gattis is not accurate. Jury is still out on those guys of course but they have shown a lot so far in their careers (both minors and majors). Terdo needs to prove he can hit at the major league level at least a little bit because he isn't at a defensive premium positions (SS/C)
stpeteirish
Called Up to the Major Leagues
I think you're discounting what Simmons and Gattis can do by lumping them in with Terdo. Gattis "medicore?" Simmons medicore? These guys are better than that.
nsacpi
Expects Yuge Games
Remember the Bragging Rights thread. We should probably start one around here to deal with claims like yours. You might remember that you and I had a little bet on the Bragging Rights thread about how many home runs Gattis and Francisco would hit this year. Are you a little surprised the number stands at 25 at the All Star break. In a combined 393 at bats. A little surprised maybe? Just a wee bit?
The point of that bet was you thought JFran and Gattis would be good, I thought they would be...not so good. Are you really bragging about a guy who was so bad he was DFA'd and a guy with a .310 OBP?
I will say this again...
JFran was, is, and always will be a poor player, period. You can toss out any arbitrary HR count you want, but the fact some bad team gives him 500 ABs and he hits 20 HRs doesn't change the fact that he is terrible.
Gattis is a 26 year old rookie with good power and a .310 OBP in a sample size that hasn't even broken 200 ABs. Yes, I am surprised (and ecstatic) that Gattis has hit 14 HRs, and I will be equally surprised if he ends the season with 20+. Why any pitcher throws him anything straight is beyond me, and I have to assume they will see some film at him waving at breaking balls and adjust their gameplan accordingly.
Yes, and he is a fine addition to the roster when he costs $500k. But what about when he costs $1M? Or $5M?
I'm not saying these aren't good players. MLB quality players don't grow on trees, so being able to produce them cheaply is very valuable. Let's just realize exactly what we are dealing with when we talk about the future of these players. In 3 years there will be other fringe guy ready to play SS or C or OF for league minimum, and these guys will become expendable.
jpx7
Very Flirtatious, but Doubts What Love Is.
You may be right regarding Gattis or Terdoslavich, but the point re Simmons is that his defense is substantially awesome enough that he's much better than a "fringe guy" despite his poor offensive showing this season. His run-saving acumen is simply that superlative.
nsacpi
Expects Yuge Games
At the risk of introducing some nuance and subtlety to certain aspects of this discussion, I think it is useful to have more than two categories (fringe and star) for major league players. I know adding additional categories complicates things, but it really is enlightening, as it was in the Bill Shanks/Jeff Francoeur/Jason Heyward brouhaha. Once the idea that Jason Heyward could be something other than either a superstar or Francoeur-level bust was introduced into the discussion the whole thing became silly.
I mentally place major leaguers into these categories:
1) Among the elite of their generation, plausible Hall of Famers
2) Perennial All-Stars
3) Solid regulars and occasional candidates for the All-Star game
4) Regulars, but generally not considered in the top half among regulars at their position
5) Good bench players to occasional regular
6) Back end of bench/bullpen types
7) Cup of coffee in the majors types
Now moving specifically to Terdoslavich. Before this year I had him pegged as belonging in bucket 5 or bucket 6.
The question I wanted to raise in this thread was whether he now projects more as a bucket 3 or 4 player.
PS: I would put Juan Francisco in bucket 5 with a good chance to reach bucket 4 in a year or two. Gattis to me is a bucket 3 or 4 players, with a chance (less than 50% but above 10%) of becoming a bucket 2 player. Btw, the Juan is having a hell of a month of July so far.
I mentally place major leaguers into these categories:
1) Among the elite of their generation, plausible Hall of Famers
2) Perennial All-Stars
3) Solid regulars and occasional candidates for the All-Star game
4) Regulars, but generally not considered in the top half among regulars at their position
5) Good bench players to occasional regular
6) Back end of bench/bullpen types
7) Cup of coffee in the majors types
Now moving specifically to Terdoslavich. Before this year I had him pegged as belonging in bucket 5 or bucket 6.
The question I wanted to raise in this thread was whether he now projects more as a bucket 3 or 4 player.
PS: I would put Juan Francisco in bucket 5 with a good chance to reach bucket 4 in a year or two. Gattis to me is a bucket 3 or 4 players, with a chance (less than 50% but above 10%) of becoming a bucket 2 player. Btw, the Juan is having a hell of a month of July so far.
jpx7
Very Flirtatious, but Doubts What Love Is.
Heretic.
Many "top positional prospects" won't even reach the majors, much less be a solid contributor, even as a bench player. All of those players mentioned also have the capability of being regulars, albeit some not with the Braves.
But thanks for the snarky comment. Now go back to rooting for Wonderdouche and your Nationals.
For some reason people take the easy way out and predict every prospect will fail aside from the can't miss ones.
I think thats just lazy assessment. Its frustrating mostly because I feel once minor leagues pass a certain age most people believe they have no shot at being solid major leaguers. That was the mistake made with Gattis and that mistake is possibly already being made with Terdo.
nsacpi
Expects Yuge Games
You're right. Terdoslavich to me wasn't much of a prospect until recently. He was always a little old for his level, limited defensively, no speed.
What changed? The main thing that did was the doubles turned into home runs. So suddenly you have a guy who combines a good approach and good contact skills with some significant power. That's an interesting prospect. A guy with an OPS of about .800 and a little old for his league now is a guy with an OPS of .900 plus who is a little old for his league. The difference is not insignificant. So I've upgraded my assessment. Part of the upgrade is also based on what my eyes tell me from seeing him in spring training and the past few games. I see a guy who has a great approach at the plate (even while noting he has to improve against major league caliber breaking balls) and also someone who is decent in the field. He'll never be a gold glover, but he is not bad out there. Having changed my assessment, I started this thread to see what other people thought. I certainly was not looking for knee-jerk reactions. I wanted to see what other people who closely follow our farm system thought.