Official 2022 Offseason Moves Thread

Back to the origins of this thread, We hear a lot about Riley getting MVP votes this year. He wont win it but he will get votes pretty certain.

Then we come back to Duvall. He won 2 legs of the triple crown this year. Will he get ANY mvp votes? I think not.
 
The RBI don't matter. The bottom line is that Duvy hit 38 HR and that has value, even if he doesn't play every day.
 
If we sign both FF and Soler, who leads off between Acuna and Soler?

I guess the real question is did Soler look like Hank Aaron because of FF protecting him or could he produce the same hitting cleanup? He did hit 48 HRS a few seasons ago.

I guess my point is I'm glad I am just a fan and don't have to make these decisions.
 
Does anyone think Pache or Waters are going to be an MLB starting caliber CF at this point. I know most think Pache has a better chance, but he really wasn't that impressive this year. Duvall can play CF, but defensively he seems below average. I was hoping one of those guys could contribute. Acuna is also an option in CF if he recovers well, but I kind of doubt we put him back there.
 
Duval is a luxury if he’s around at the end of the offseason. So many other priorities. I think we can easily start the year with pache is center and if he falls on his ass we can upgrade mid season.

The goal should be to get the best hitting cost effective trio at 1B/DH/LF. You can absolutely live with paches bat in that lineup assuming he’s a plus defensively. Get the best right handed reliever possible. Maybe Kimbrel would like to come back at a reasonable figure.

Lots of money to spend. Go big on offense and a right handed option in the pen.
 
thethe said:
While I still don't agree with this 100% this is still a much different than saying if you can't measure it its not real.
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thethe said:
Its not semantics.

It was a false statement you made that you are now trying to ignore.

If the sample size is too small to draw a conclusion, what does that tell a logical thinker? It should inform them that it isn't a measurable skill,

This is wrong.
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If you can’t measure it, it’s not measurable. That’s just basic semantics. You’re the one who then equated “measurable” with the larger metaphysical premise of “reality”.
 
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jpx7 said:
If you can’t measure it, it’s not measurable. That’s just basic semantics. You’re the one who then equated “measurable” with “real”.
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You can’t measure it in the analysis provided from the article because there wasn’t a large enough sample size captured.

They have therefore come to the incorrect conclusion, as Encheff did as well, that it isn’t a measurable attribute. Not that it wasn’t measurable within the context of their study.

I’m not even saying that I believe it’s a defining attribute for a player. All I’m saying is that I think it makes sense the event is different and therefore there may be some unique correlations to make for hitters.
 
thethe said:
Back to the conversation.

If we all conclude that a pitcher pitches differently out of the stretch then I think it makes sense to wonder if hitters perform differently over comparable situations in baseball for all other players.
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You have to prove that certain hitters are better capable than others when hitting pitchers out of the stretch (or in different shift scenarios, etc.). The point is that can’t be empirically proven, so I don’t understand with your obsession with belaboring that point.

If your point is that pitchers pitch differently out of the stretch (and therefore worse), you are effectively arguing in favor of the relative importance of hitting with no runners on base as it makes your teammates more likely to succeed.
 
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What about Chris Taylor as a super utility guy? I’m sure the Dodgers will bring him back but he can play all over and play well. He’s scrappy as hell and always seems to get a big hit.
 
thethe said:
How is it determined that its not a repeatable skill though?

What is it compared against to say its just normal variation?

I'm not necessarily taking the position that it is its own unique skill set but to discount it altogether seems a bit extreme for me.
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Take a look at Duvall's career RISP numbers year to year and tell me if it is something he's good at.
 
PawPawMaxwell said:
Back to the origins of this thread, We hear a lot about Riley getting MVP votes this year. He wont win it but he will get votes pretty certain.

Then we come back to Duvall. He won 2 legs of the triple crown this year. Will he get ANY mvp votes? I think not.
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Someone call Tatis and tell him he wasn't the HR leader!
 
This will definitely be an interesting year. The pressure will be off AA a little because…well…he’s won a championship.

We have a ton of rule 5 eligible guys, so my bet would be us making a decently large trade.

As much as I love the guys we picked up…AA successfully caught lighting in a bottle. All those guys came cheap, because they were not having great years (outside of maybe Duvall). They all peaked at the perfect time. It was incredible, but I only see Soler as a guy I we need back. Duvall would be great, depending on his payday. Joc…meh. Rosario…sure if the price is right.

Lets put it this way. Without making the “big trade”, we have won a WS and really should have won last year if not for the injuries to the rotation. We still have EVERYONE. Our window should be large.

I’m just gonna set back and see what AA does, because he’s either the luckiest GM I’ve ever seen or one of the smartest. He has gotten everything on his terms. I just want to see what he does next, now that he has more money, all his prospects and a WS. Unreal.
 
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I don't see any Rule 5 issues. Tarnok and Waters are really the only guys that have to go on the 40-man and there will be six guys filing for free agency and probably half a dozen that can be DFA'd. I think three will be coming off the 60-day DL, but there should be enough room to get done what needs to get done.
 
chop2chip said:
You have to prove that certain hitters are better capable than others when hitting pitchers out of the stretch (or in different shift scenarios, etc.). The point is that can’t be empirically proven, so I don’t understand with your obsession with belaboring that point.

If your point is that pitchers pitch differently out of the stretch (and therefore worse), you are effectively arguing in favor of the relative importance of hitting with no runners on base as it makes your teammates more likely to succeed.
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Yeah, I mean there is kind of a simple way to look ai it. Sure it's not perfect, but it's look at how he hits with runners on (112 tOPS+) vs. No one on (89 tOPS+) Compare him to some random players here.

BTW incase anyone wants to know tOPS+ is relative to OPS so a higher number would indicate being better at that

Tatis 116/90
Freeman 114/88
Albies 120/87
Heyward 107/95


So he isn't really exceptional. There are guys who're "worse" at hitting with runners on (or better at hitting with the bases empty depending on your skew) but it's not like Duvall is truly exceptional there. There are other factors with certain runners and number of outs too that aren't taken into consideration like players who receiver massive shifts.
 
Hudson2 said:
What about Chris Taylor as a super utility guy? I’m sure the Dodgers will bring him back but he can play all over and play well. He’s scrappy as hell and always seems to get a big hit.
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Hopefully he go to the American league. I hate that guy so much.
 
Coredor said:
Does anyone think Pache or Waters are going to be an MLB starting caliber CF at this point. I know most think Pache has a better chance, but he really wasn't that impressive this year. Duvall can play CF, but defensively he seems below average. I was hoping one of those guys could contribute. Acuna is also an option in CF if he recovers well, but I kind of doubt we put him back there.
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I think Pache is going to be a valuable CF for awhile. He’s 22. Plenty of adjustments to be made- some of which seemed to be made at AAA this year.

As someone who thought we needed to move on from Riley at 3B in the early days of the season, I’m going to try to avoid making that mistake again.
 
McCann'sCans said:
I think Pache is going to be a valuable CF for awhile. He’s 22. Plenty of adjustments to be made- some of which seemed to be made at AAA this year.

As someone who thought we needed to move on from Riley at 3B in the early days of the season, I’m going to try to avoid making that mistake again.
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If FF is brought back and we fill RF and DH (assuming it happens) with capable hitters. I have no issue with Pache playing CF again to start the year and hitting 9th.
 
McCann'sCans said:
I think Pache is going to be a valuable CF for awhile. He’s 22. Plenty of adjustments to be made- some of which seemed to be made at AAA this year.

As someone who thought we needed to move on from Riley at 3B in the early days of the season, I’m going to try to avoid making that mistake again.
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Pache was unfathomably bad. He was so bad we can’t even look at his stats and come up with things he needs to work on other than “hitting” in a general sense.

Riley at least had positives to build on. Pache literally had nothing positive. Nothing. So it’s almost like our evaluation of him starts from scratch.

But he definitely needs to be given another shot, and it needs to be more than 68 PAs…as long as he at least resembles a MLB player.
 
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