Lord of the Rings Thread

striker42

striker42

Well-known member
We're getting more an more glimpses and news of the Rings of Power tv show from Amazon. I was really excited when I heard about a super high budget LOTR tv series but I'm starting to get concerned. The show runners have been quoted as saying they think they're making something "better" and "more timely" than Tolkien. That's quite the hubris.

The first trailer didn't look great either. They clearly leaned heavily into CGI instead of practical effects which is disappointing. It's also looking like they're departing heavily from canon in multiple areas.

I also think apologists are too quick to try to say it's about race. While there are undoubtedly a few that don't like there being a black elf, I don't think most of those dubious of the show care about that. The bigger concern is this becoming essentially another Wheel of Time.
 
There is a set of people that are claiming you are racist if you have any issues with how the show is looking so far which is par the course for any kind of criticism of anything these days. But yeah, I fear it's going to be just some fantasy show that you only know is from Tolkien based on character names. I hope I am wrong but that's just the sense that I get.

Now I'm not some book purist that thinks nothing can be altered. I love Jackson's LOTR trilogy but there were quite a few changes in that adaptation from the books but it still felt Tolkien to me. One big change that's supposedly happening in this show is they are severely compressing the timeline of the Second Age. That I can understand because in the books there is almost 2000 years between the forging of the rings of power and the last alliance of men and elves that close out the Second Age. They are likely wanting to tell the entire story within a couple of generations of human lives. So combining the War of Elves and Sauron with Pharazon's invasion makes sense instead of separating it by 1000+ years.

With that said we'll see how it goes. The second age information is mainly just notes/rough drafts and not complete stories like LOTR. So there is room, and likely some needed, to tell a complete and compelling story. But yeah, I do have Wheel of Time and GOT Season 8 vibes.
 
thewupk said:
There is a set of people that are claiming you are racist if you have any issues with how the show is looking so far which is par the course for any kind of criticism of anything these days. But yeah, I fear it's going to be just some fantasy show that you only know is from Tolkien based on character names. I hope I am wrong but that's just the sense that I get.

Now I'm not some book purist that thinks nothing can be altered. I love Jackson's LOTR trilogy but there were quite a few changes in that adaptation from the books but it still felt Tolkien to me. One big change that's supposedly happening in this show is they are severely compressing the timeline of the Second Age. That I can understand because in the books there is almost 2000 years between the forging of the rings of power and the last alliance of men and elves that close out the Second Age. They are likely wanting to tell the entire story within a couple of generations of human lives. So combining the War of Elves and Sauron with Pharazon's invasion makes sense instead of separating it by 1000+ years.

With that said we'll see how it goes. The second age information is mainly just notes/rough drafts and not complete stories like LOTR. So there is room, and likely some needed, to tell a complete and compelling story. But yeah, I do have Wheel of Time and GOT Season 8 vibes.
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Yeah, there's always going to be some changes in adapting a book to live action. When I take offense is when the adaptation is not true to the characters, the vital story, and the general vision of the author. I have no problem with them compressing the timeline and likely combining multiple characters. I understand that you don't want to have to recast half your actors because you jumped 500 years and all your humans are dead. The large gaps in time aren't vital to the stories.

I am afraid that they're going to heavily change a lot of characters. I think we're going to see characters who bear basically no resemblance to what was established in canon and even in the movies.

I'll watch it and give it a legitimate chance but I am concerned they're going to be doing something that is related to Tolkien's universe only through some borrowed names and plot points.

The other thing I'm worried about from the trailer is that the artistic direction wont create an authentic world. What Peter Jackson was best at is creating a world that felt real. Rivendell was amazing, Rohan felt like a viking village (in a good way), and Gondor felt like a once proud country that was crumbling. The Shire was an absolute masterpiece.

The trailer doesn't have the same feel of a real world. Hopefully the finished product is better.
 
My fear is they'll try and make it like GoT. And Tolkien's universe isn't anywhere near close to GoT. It would be like trying to make Chronicles of Narnia like Harry Potter.

There are things they can take liberties with that I'm OK with. There are others I'm not willing to budge on. We'll see where it winds up. I'm going into it with an open mind. Hopefully I'm not let down like Rise of Skywalker.
 
I'll say one thing. The rumored forbidden love between an elf and human wouldn't be a good start. It's a super rare situation that I think Tolkien only wrote about 3 known instances. Hated it in the hobbit moves when they did elf and dwarf too.
 
thewupk said:
I'll say one thing. The rumored forbidden love between an elf and human wouldn't be a good start. It's a super rare situation that I think Tolkien only wrote about 3 known instances. Hated it in the hobbit moves when they did elf and dwarf too.
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That could be right. Beren and Luthien, Aragorn and Arwen, Tuor and Idril. Is that it?

I could go through a number of stories that would be fun. But I'm with you on the nerves. That's why I think they'll snag the GoT crowd which is a mistake.
 
zitothebrave said:
That could be right. Beren and Luthien, Aragorn and Arwen, Tuor and Idril. Is that it?

I could go through a number of stories that would be fun. But I'm with you on the nerves. That's why I think they'll snag the GoT crowd which is a mistake.
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Yeah, that's the three. Tuor and Idril is the one I always forget.

Im fine with an Elf-Human romance as long as it fails or ends in the deaths of both before they can marry. Feelings between Elves and Men is one thing, the choice of Luthien is another.
 
striker42 said:
Yeah, that's the three. Tuor and Idril is the one I always forget.

Im fine with an Elf-Human romance as long as it fails or ends in the deaths of both before they can marry. Feelings between Elves and Men is one thing, the choice of Luthien is another.
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Right, like he or she attempts to court her, they play it a little bit but ultimately it gets shut down. Seriously I want to like it. I really do because it's the kind of stuff that makes peopel make more content I like. I hope it's like Legends of Vox Machina or Queen's Gambit and not like the new Tim Burton Charlie and the Chocolate Factory.
 
I'd prefer they just avoid it all together but I doubt they will. I'm hoping that rumored forbidden love is in reference to Isildur's newly created sister in the show with maybe Al-Pharazon's son. There is enough strife between the two factions of the King's Men and the Faithful to have a Romeo and Juliet situation.
 
I'll wait and see. But yeah. They're going to be making a ton of stuff. Honestly I think they could make a 3-4 season show on the fall of numenor which would be fantastic, but I feel like it would still be wasted.
 
zitothebrave said:
I'll wait and see. But yeah. They're going to be making a ton of stuff. Honestly I think they could make a 3-4 season show on the fall of numenor which would be fantastic, but I feel like it would still be wasted.
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So looking into this a bit more. Apparently, the rights that Amazon have are very limited in scope. It's essentially the LOTR and it's appendices. Which is essentially a cliff notes about various things from the second age. So no fleshed-out stories from The Silmarillion or Unfinished Tales. Anything not in the appendices that they want to use they have to ask for permission from the Tolkien Estate.

With that information, I wouldn't be shocked if they added a lot of filler since they couldn't make a show otherwise.
 
thewupk said:
So looking into this a bit more. Apparently, the rights that Amazon have are very limited in scope. It's essentially the LOTR and it's appendices. Which is essentially a cliff notes about various things from the second age. So no fleshed-out stories from The Silmarillion or Unfinished Tales. Anything not in the appendices that they want to use they have to ask for permission from the Tolkien Estate.

With that information, I wouldn't be shocked if they added a lot of filler since they couldn't make a show otherwise.
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Yeah, it's true. I thought the whole point of this was they got the rights to the Silmarillion. So instead of a legitimate adaptation of Tolkien's work we're getting fan fiction.
 
striker42 said:
Yeah, it's true. I thought the whole point of this was they got the rights to the Silmarillion. So instead of a legitimate adaptation of Tolkien's work we're getting fan fiction.
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Yeah....We'll see. The map they used as a promo is clearly from Unfinished Tales so I guess we can hope they managed to get enough material to make it legit. But I agree, I thought the whole point was to get those rights to make a real adaptation. It's a shame.
 
Bringing this back up after discussing Galadriel with Zito in the Star Wars thread.

I maintain that they did a huge disservice to Galadriel by making her a warrior in Rings of Power. They wanted to show her being every bit as capable as a man but fell into the trap of the idea that the only way a character's contributions are valuable is if they contribute in the same way men do. This implies that the contributions of men are innately more valuable.

Could Galadriel fight? Yes. There are at least two, likely three instances where she fought. The first was the Kinslaying. The second was in the War of Wrath when everyone fought. The final possible time was when the Galadrim attack Dol Guldur (though she could have used her power and not weapons here). I don't think I'm forgetting any here but correct me if I am.

Considering how violent Galadriel's world was, that's a very small number of battles. In spite of being physically able to be a warrior, she only fought when absolutely necessary. Her contributions were in other areas.

She was an inspirational leader who was revered by her people. She learned from Aule in Valinor. She was among the wisest of the elves. She wielded one of the three rings preserving her people's lands. And she has great power of her own.

By making her a warrior, the runners of Rings of Power basically are saying that those other contributions aren't sufficient, she has to contribute the way men do in order to be a strong character.

Apart from that, the show is an absolute mess. The story is just weird and the design choices are puzzling.
 
I personally don't care about the direction they went with Galadriel. I think it's a difference in eras. I think to captivate the modern audience you have to show someone capable of battle and as you pointed out there are instances of Galadriel fighting. Considering no tale is the tale of Galadriel she could have been involved in other combats as well. It's not a crazy leap to make.

I do think Rings of Power struggled by telling too big of a story. Considering they signed a 5 year agreement they could have instead broke the story up into 3 seasons of buildup followed by 2 seasons of unity.

Season 1 of buildup could have been a bit like the show but instead of telling the whole story. It's mainly focused on the rise of Eregion, season 1 ends with Annatar coming to Eregion (can change the name if you don't have it) season 2 is about the creation of the Rings. And the deception of Annatar. Season 3 is about the Assault no Eregion, season 4 is about the fall of Numenor, Season 5 about the mustering of sauron's forces, etc. and if you get more seasons you can lay out the end of the second age. You can sprinkle in your silly little side stories here and there. Just don't show Durin's Bane as he didn't awaken until the 3rd age.
 
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