Potential SP Trade Targets
- Thread starter Enscheff
- Start date
jgriff3029
Active member
Not to say those two wouldn't be better than what our fifth starters have produced but Greinke has a FIP over 4 and Archer a FIP over 5.
msstate7
Well-known member
Isn't he relieving?
Tapate50
Well-known member
You holding your breath on Archer keeping that up? I am not.
Russ2dollas
10 yr, $185 million Extension
I disagree on needing a starting pitcher.
We don't have a lot of assets left and I don't want to use them on a SP. If someone is a throw away, ok.
We have expanded playoffs. A fifth starter is unlikely to be on the roster in the playoffs.
We need performance to get us to the playoffs out of the fifth spot. I still think Elder can be a solid 5th guy, he's got to stop walking people. That has not been an issue before. We have Elder, Strider, Touki, Davidson and Muller. We should be able to get a 5th starter out of that.
IMO we are not winning b/c the OF has been horrible on offense and defense. We need to score more runs. Anyone we get to add to the rotation you'd need to score 5+ runs that day to feel good about winning. Might as well be a guy that is making the minimum and does not cost prospects.
If Morton comes up to Anderson's level and Wright comes down to Anderson's level we have a good rotation. We have the 3-4 guys we'd actually use in the playoffs.
I would stretch Strider out. Assume he's going to give you 4-5 innings. And put Elder, Touki or Muller in the current Strider role. Ask that guy to get you two innings on the days Strider starts.
We don't have a lot of assets left and I don't want to use them on a SP. If someone is a throw away, ok.
We have expanded playoffs. A fifth starter is unlikely to be on the roster in the playoffs.
We need performance to get us to the playoffs out of the fifth spot. I still think Elder can be a solid 5th guy, he's got to stop walking people. That has not been an issue before. We have Elder, Strider, Touki, Davidson and Muller. We should be able to get a 5th starter out of that.
IMO we are not winning b/c the OF has been horrible on offense and defense. We need to score more runs. Anyone we get to add to the rotation you'd need to score 5+ runs that day to feel good about winning. Might as well be a guy that is making the minimum and does not cost prospects.
If Morton comes up to Anderson's level and Wright comes down to Anderson's level we have a good rotation. We have the 3-4 guys we'd actually use in the playoffs.
I would stretch Strider out. Assume he's going to give you 4-5 innings. And put Elder, Touki or Muller in the current Strider role. Ask that guy to get you two innings on the days Strider starts.
zbhargrove
Well-known member
Strider is who we need to take over the 5th spot. Our depth is super thin though. If the usual injuries occur, we will be in trouble with that depth.
I think folks may want to look at the actual numbers for the different units on this team...
SPs are #23 in WAR.
BP is #4 in WAR.
OF is #30 (holy hell) in WAR.
While the OF is bad, the rotation has also been bad. Fixing these units are not mutually exclusive. The difference between those 2 units is the Braves have a Top 5 player they just plugged back into the OF, and a prospect who is probably capable of producing soon. The SP options are...let's call them underwhelming.
Assuming this team makes the playoffs, and therefor doesn't need another SP option, is a great way to miss the playoffs entirely.
SPs are #23 in WAR.
BP is #4 in WAR.
OF is #30 (holy hell) in WAR.
While the OF is bad, the rotation has also been bad. Fixing these units are not mutually exclusive. The difference between those 2 units is the Braves have a Top 5 player they just plugged back into the OF, and a prospect who is probably capable of producing soon. The SP options are...let's call them underwhelming.
Assuming this team makes the playoffs, and therefor doesn't need another SP option, is a great way to miss the playoffs entirely.
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Hudson2
Well-known member
I agree. We have enough in house options to fix the OF but none that are an upgrade in the rotation.
Russ2dollas
10 yr, $185 million Extension
I expect the starters to do better. Anderson started out horribly. Morton has been bad. I expect regression from Wright. I don't think our 5th starter will be this bad.
I do not think we need to expend the precious few resources we have for a guy who won't make our post season roster. Why not just start Strider? I get that Strider is likely on a 150 innings limit for the year and that is probably the answer to my own question. I don't see a guy that we could get that would make much of an impact. I do think the guys we have have upside.
We also have been making our rotation worse by going with a 6 man rotation, essentially using two of the 5th starter options and using the good guys less.
bravesfanMatt
Steve Harvey'd
I don’t mind the 6 man rotation. I am not worried about the marathon but more being ready for sprint in October.
MadduxFanII
Swallowed by Mark Bowman
Morton being terrible is one of those variables that really changes the equation if it sticks. A lot of our rotation planning was built around the assumption of Morton and Fried as TOR stalwarts, and if Morton is genuinely bad, that's not something you can easily adjust for in-season. If Morton can turn it around and pitch to his projections, and Wright retains his gains, then things look OK -- filling a fifth starter spot with a competent arm is much easier and cheaper than finding someone in-season to try and match what we expected from Morton.
Which is maybe a good argument against placing so much on a 38-year-old pitcher.
Which is maybe a good argument against placing so much on a 38-year-old pitcher.
Basically you have to operate under the assumption that anything Soroka gives us going forward is a pleasant surprise. Even if he returns to the MLB mound the assumption always has to be that the next pitch could well be his last. He can’t be built around he can only be used as a booster for pieces we already have.
Yeah if our #2 starter sucks now we’ve got problems that I don’t know how we would have fixed without signing Verlander which we tried to do.
Russ2dollas
10 yr, $185 million Extension
I agree in principle. The question is do we get to the playoffs. The expanded playoffs obviously help here. But if you don't win the division you are more subject to random chance.
Fried has demonstrated he is much better on extended rest. The rotation is still mostly very young or very old. The 6 man makes sense.
My point is that the 6 man means that instead of you getting 20% of your starts by Fried you are getting 17%. And you are getting two starts from the guys the original poster wants upgraded instead of 1. WAR is the stat referenced and the strategy we are using is artificially lowering the WAR because it is lowering the innings. That's not to say we should be in the 20s, but it is part of the story. I don't want Grienke.
zbhargrove
Well-known member
No one is more worried that Morton is toast than me... but I keep thinking back to last year when he was really bad at the start... and he seemed to bear down and find some success in the second half of his last outing. I'm hoping that was him finding the feel again.
I do not. I also don't expect the HR rate to stay above 2. I suspect his actual value is somewhere between his ERA and his FIP. He would need only provide an ERA South of 4.5 to be a useful 5th starter which was the point I was making at the time.
The point is not that Morton is bad, and nobody could have predicted it, which is only partially true (he's 38 and coming off a broken leg for crying out loud).
The point is the team went into the season with 3 legit SP options.
Guys get hurt all the time. Guys become ineffective all the time. It is a given in baseball, especially with pitchers.
The fact AA thought he could go into a title defense season with 3 real SPs and a bunch of crap to throw at the wall, knowing they would use a 6 man rotation, was a roster building mistake. He is lucky Wright seems to have figured it out and helped fill the massive gap in the rotation.
So instead he added to an already strong BP, and left huge gaping holes in the OF and rotation.
The point is the team went into the season with 3 legit SP options.
Guys get hurt all the time. Guys become ineffective all the time. It is a given in baseball, especially with pitchers.
The fact AA thought he could go into a title defense season with 3 real SPs and a bunch of crap to throw at the wall, knowing they would use a 6 man rotation, was a roster building mistake. He is lucky Wright seems to have figured it out and helped fill the massive gap in the rotation.
So instead he added to an already strong BP, and left huge gaping holes in the OF and rotation.
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After the early inning blow up the other day, he/d'Arnaud/Kranitz found something - he looked like himself in the 3rd-5th innings. Far too early to be overly concerned yet IMO when you consider he was behind to begin with coming off of the broken leg WITH a shortened spring training. It's fair to wonder if Father Time is gaining on him, but after watching him perform once he got into his groove last season it's pretty unfair to think the sky is falling just yet.