Elbow Injuries Caused By Change Ups?

AUTiger7222

AUTiger7222

Called Up to the Major Leagues
For years and years it was thought that the most severe pitch for a pitcher to throw was the slider because of the pressure it put on the elbow. It was believed that was the pitch that led to pitchers getting hurt and that if they didn't throw that pitch then they wouldn't get hurt. This was funneled down all the way to the high school and little league levels where pitchers in most cases weren't allowed to throw sliders or any kind of breaking pitch in most cases.

But is the change up the pitch that causes elbow injuries? Look at threw prominate pitchers, all in their 20s, all facing their second Tommy John surgery of their career, Kris Medlen, Brandon Beachy and Jarrod Parker. All pitchers who have very good change ups. It was even comfirmed that the pitch that Medlen got hurt on this time was a change up. Change up's cause an incredible amount of stress on the elbow because your goal is to slow down the speed of the ball while keeping your arm speed the same to mimick a fastball. Look at other pitchers that have had Tommy John surgery, among just the Braves, Mike Hampton, Tim Hudson and Eric O'Flaherty. All 3 have very good change ups that are a big part of their success as MLB pitchers.

What do you guys think?
 
In short no.

Changeup should have no different arm action than a fastball. So it shouldn't cause problems more than a fastball.

In long.

The majority of injuries with pitching have to do with poor mechanics, when you have poor mechanics a common result is a poor timing which leads to rushing which leads to arm and shoulder issues. Changeups should follow the same release and arm speed as a fastball, so it should have no extra stress. The difference between the pitch has to do with the grip primarily. If you have a drastic difference in arm action it's a tip and hitters can pick up on it and it's no longer an effective pitch.
 
I think the elbow ligament should be seperated from other elbow/arm injuries because tj surgery is pretty much inevitable for every pitcher except a rare few. Pitchers are using the ligament like a rubber band to get velocity. Stretch a rubber band a little too far a few too many times and it willn tear. I think its futile to try and predict when the injury will strike. I subscribe to the theory that long innings is where the majority damage happens. Pitches 20-30 of an inning are worse than 1-10 because the body is fatigued.
 
Also just to address Huddy, he throws a splitter, a pitch thought by many to be harder on the arm than the slider. According to pitch frequency data he rarely throes changes (5.3%) threw almost doublw that number in splitters (which you may be confusing with a change) and nearly triple in slider.

Beachy throws more sliders than changes, Medlen throws almost as many curves as changes, EOF throws way more sliders than changes, Hampton was about equal on breaking pitches and changes.
 
They're freaks, but Maddux, Glavine and Pedro didn't have elbow problems. (as far as I know.)
 
Before TJ surgery an elbow injury was classified as a bad arm and the injured pitcher went back to life. Never to be heard from again

I see 15-16 year old kids getting TJS as if it were taking ibuprofen before a game. I am seeing 18 year olds going back to Andrew for their second ---

My theory on the reasons for so many elbow injuries and the proliferation of TJS:

The opportunity to not let go of the dream, money and of course the age old athletic bugaboo --- genetics.

Some got um and some don't. (Maddox,Glavine,Pedro)

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Question to me is why have we seen so many debilitating mid section pulls the past few years - yet 15/20 years ago never heard of them?
 
Z got me wondering on Pedro's career and the how old's / injuries etc.
When i Wiki'ed Pedro I found this gem I'd forgotten. Man, any baseball fan has to get a woodie thinking on this accomplishment

"Between August 1999 and April 2000, Martínez had ten consecutive starts with 10 or more strikeouts. Only three pitchers have had as many as seven such starts in a row, and one of those was Martínez himself, in April–May 1999. He averaged more than 15 strikeouts per nine innings during his record 10-game streak.[6] During the 1999 season, he set the record for most consecutive innings pitched with a strikeout, with 40. For his career, Martínez has compiled 15 or more strikeouts in a game ten times, which is tied with Roger Clemens for the third-most 15-K games in history. (Nolan Ryan had 27, and Randy Johnson had 29.)"
 
zitothebrave said:
Also just to address Huddy, he throws a splitter, a pitch thought by many to be harder on the arm than the slider. According to pitch frequency data he rarely throes changes (5.3%) threw almost doublw that number in splitters (which you may be confusing with a change) and nearly triple in slider.

Beachy throws more sliders than changes, Medlen throws almost as many curves as changes, EOF throws way more sliders than changes, Hampton was about equal on breaking pitches and changes.
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Hampton shouldn't be considered in any serious analysis of injuries. He could hurt himself riding a stationary bike.
 
Also want to add that while the arm action should be the same on every pitch what happens with the hand is not necessarily the same...the speed on the change up can be varied by dragging the hand more rather than snapping the wrist. Also pitchers tend to "turn over" their change ups which will cause the down and away movement to opposite hand batters. You can also "turn over" the fastball to cause the same movement.
 
57Brave said:
Before TJ surgery an elbow injury was classified as a bad arm and the injured pitcher went back to life. Never to be heard from again

I see 15-16 year old kids getting TJS as if it were taking ibuprofen before a game. I am seeing 18 year olds going back to Andrew for their second ---

My theory on the reasons for so many elbow injuries and the proliferation of TJS:

The opportunity to not let go of the dream, money and of course the age old athletic bugaboo --- genetics.

Some got um and some don't. (Maddox,Glavine,Pedro)

////////////////////////////////////////////////

Question to me is why have we seen so many debilitating mid section pulls the past few years - yet 15/20 years ago never heard of them?
Click to expand...

My thoughts.

15-20 years ago, young players weren't playing year around baseball like they are today. Today, you have the summer travel league circuits, and now they have fall baseball league's as well. Some of these pitchers are throwing well over 200+ innings at a very young age when you combine their regular high school season with the ball they play in the summer, and whatever ball they play in the fall leagues.

These elite summer showcase events are great for getting players noticed, but I can't help but wonder if these guys should be resting more and really focusing on an innings limit from a year to year basis.
 
Orphan Black said:
Also want to add that while the arm action should be the same on every pitch what happens with the hand is not necessarily the same...the speed on the change up can be varied by dragging the hand more rather than snapping the wrist. Also pitchers tend to "turn over" their change ups which will cause the down and away movement to opposite hand batters. You can also "turn over" the fastball to cause the same movement.
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Maybe it's the dragging of the hand combined with the whipping of the arm that puts the pressure on the forearm that causes the injury?
 
KB21 said:
My thoughts.

15-20 years ago, young players weren't playing year around baseball like they are today. Today, you have the summer travel league circuits, and now they have fall baseball league's as well. Some of these pitchers are throwing well over 200+ innings at a very young age when you combine their regular high school season with the ball they play in the summer, and whatever ball they play in the fall leagues.

These elite summer showcase events are great for getting players noticed, but I can't help but wonder if these guys should be resting more and really focusing on an innings limit from a year to year basis.
Click to expand...

I came to this same thought as well on this subject on another board. I think the playing of a single sport year around has caused many of the increased injuries we see especially with baseball pitchers. These kids never rest their arms and allow their body to recover. Let's also not forget that spring training was used to get in shape for the baseball season after players had spent the winter working normal jobs. Now days players work out year around and come to camp in shape and ready for the season. It's one of the reasons players become sick of spring training games just a couple of weeks into March.
 
Also, throwing off the mound causes 4 times as much force on the arm than throwing off flat ground.
 
AUTiger7222 said:
I came to this same thought as well on this subject on another board. I think the playing of a single sport year around has caused many of the increased injuries we see especially with baseball pitchers. These kids never rest their arms and allow their body to recover. Let's also not forget that spring training was used to get in shape for the baseball season after players had spent the winter working normal jobs. Now days players work out year around and come to camp in shape and ready for the season. It's one of the reasons players become sick of spring training games just a couple of weeks into March.
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Look at local prospect Dylan Cease, who has shut it down for his senior season with a shoulder injury. I know it isn't TJS, but there is no telling how many innings Dylan Cease threw in the past few years just to get noticed by scouts.

Needless to say, I'm not sure if I want my son becoming a pitcher long term. I think I would feel better with him being an outfielder like I was.
 
KB21 said:
Look at local prospect Dylan Cease, who has shut it down for his senior season with a shoulder injury. I know it isn't TJS, but there is no telling how many innings Dylan Cease threw in the past few years just to get noticed by scouts.

Needless to say, I'm not sure if I want my son becoming a pitcher long term. I think I would feel better with him being an outfielder like I was.
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Yep. It's crazy.
 
And just to clarify the term "turn over" it's when they snap their wrist they do so with more pressure on the pointer finger side of the hand. It's odd cuz this is what Maddux did to get the come back action on his fastball all those years and he never had any issues.
 
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