Elbow Injuries Caused By Change Ups?

My kid's pitching is coach is teaching him to throw a curve ball. Before getting started, he showed him the wrong way and then the right way. It is amazing at the difference in the effect on the elbow. With the "wrong way", you could actually see the coach's elbow ligament movement. Anyway, the coach explained to my kid that if you learn to throw it correctly, it has no more effect than a fastball.

BTW, I wouldn't know as I'm not a baseball coach or instructor.
 
KB21 said:
My thoughts.

15-20 years ago, young players weren't playing year around baseball like they are today. Today, you have the summer travel league circuits, and now they have fall baseball league's as well. Some of these pitchers are throwing well over 200+ innings at a very young age when you combine their regular high school season with the ball they play in the summer, and whatever ball they play in the fall leagues.

These elite summer showcase events are great for getting players noticed, but I can't help but wonder if these guys should be resting more and really focusing on an innings limit from a year to year basis.
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Great point, and that's what I've been thinking too. There's now more than ever at stake for kids to make it to the pros, so they start taking on heavy workloads from a young age. I remember just two decades ago when I was in little league and coaches advised the kids not to throw certain pitches until they reached a certain age. I wonder if that's all gone now.
 
This thread made me wonder if the grip on the change up has an effect on the elbow??? Example, hold your hand in a 4-seam position and go through a throwing motion -- Now, hold your hand in a circle change position and use the same motion ---- feels different doesn't it?

NYC Brave - I coached youth baseball for many many years and I always felt there are pitches kids shouldn't throw. Curves,sliders and should you have a kid with big enough hands splitter.
Main reason besides the fact their arms are still growing is I feel they should learn to locate and not necessarily throw a straight change but learn to change speeds. Which can be accomplished by where you hold the ball in your hand using a fastball grip.

Wow learned something new here! Thanks guys
 
There is also this myth floating around that players come back stronger after they have TJS. It is not the same. If you have ever examined someone's elbow that has had TJS, it is not the same. If you flex 90 degress at the elbow, stabilize the shoulder, and try to externally rotate the forearm, people who have had TJS have a very hard end feel when you do that. In folks that have not had TJS, there is some give there. What that means is that there is a lot less give with the ulnar collateral ligament, and to me, that means that if something stresses it, instead of being compliant and stretching with the stress, it is going to tear again.
 
57Brave said:
This thread made me wonder if the grip on the change up has an effect on the elbow??? Example, hold your hand in a 4-seam position and go through a throwing motion -- Now, hold your hand in a circle change position and use the same motion ---- feels different doesn't it?

NYC Brave - I coached youth baseball for many many years and I always felt there are pitches kids shouldn't throw. Curves,sliders and should you have a kid with big enough hands splitter.
Main reason besides the fact their arms are still growing is I feel they should learn to locate and not necessarily throw a straight change but learn to change speeds. Which can be accomplished by where you hold the ball in your hand using a fastball grip.

Wow learned something new here! Thanks guys
Click to expand...

I think you hit the nail on the head of what I was getting at on the grip of the change up putting more pressure on the elbow causing the injuries we're seeing.
 
KB21 said:
There is also this myth floating around that players come back stronger after they have TJS. It is not the same. If you have ever examined someone's elbow that has had TJS, it is not the same. If you flex 90 degress at the elbow, stabilize the shoulder, and try to externally rotate the forearm, people who have had TJS have a very hard end feel when you do that. In folks that have not had TJS, there is some give there. What that means is that there is a lot less give with the ulnar collateral ligament, and to me, that means that if something stresses it, instead of being compliant and stretching with the stress, it is going to tear again.
Click to expand...

Great point. I think the same can be said for ACL injuries.
 
jdunn said:
My kid's pitching is coach is teaching him to throw a curve ball. Before getting started, he showed him the wrong way and then the right way. It is amazing at the difference in the effect on the elbow. With the "wrong way", you could actually see the coach's elbow ligament movement. Anyway, the coach explained to my kid that if you learn to throw it correctly, it has no more effect than a fastball.

BTW, I wouldn't know as I'm not a baseball coach or instructor.
Click to expand...

Depends on the person. Everyones arm is constructed a little differently. What is the right or wrong way for that particular (well meaning) coach might be the opposite for your son. Based entirely on the bone/ligament structure your son inherited.

The best thing as a parent is to watch your son. Closely. Not just when they pitch but the day afterwards -- are they favoring an undisclosed injury? As athletes they are taught to learn the difference between an injury and common discomfort. But just because someone says they must know the difference - there is a learning curve. Medlen knew immediately he was injured. Somewhere along the way he's learned his body well enough to recognize

My advise has always been for pitchers watch them eat (like you have since they were first brought home) . If anywhere in the motion of bringing the fork to their mouths something isn't right or awkward --- something isn't right
 
NYCBrave said:
Great point, and that's what I've been thinking too. There's now more than ever at stake for kids to make it to the pros, so they start taking on heavy workloads from a young age. I remember just two decades ago when I was in little league and coaches advised the kids not to throw certain pitches until they reached a certain age. I wonder if that's all gone now.
Click to expand...

I think it's max effort.

If you look at old newsreels of Spahn and Feller (for instance), they're kind of long and loose. Glavine and Maddux weren't max effort guys, either. Leo taught locating better, not throwing harder. He also taught throwing often at 80% or thereabouts.

Think about the stats you see on Cy Young and Ol' Hoss Radbourn. No way they could throw 400 innings a season the way guys do now. Now, every single pitch is executed with maximum force, it seems.

Like some others, I'm having the travel ball debate inside my head right now with my 11 year old. He's got a very solid Little League program, formal practices three days a week and we throw or hit a couple more days...he loves the game and is excited to play. Couple years ago for allstars we had a drill sergeant coach with every day practices for six weeks and he was sick of it. Other thing is, he's a nice soccer player and a point guard...In baseball, he's a heady player, so it's not like he needs more situations...he needs to love the game, first and foremost, and I think he'll just get sick of it if he plays travel ball, too.

Oh, and the Tommy John problem.
 
I just finished listening to Bobby Knight talk about the importance of rest during March Madness and there is such a thing as too much practice.

Travel ball for 11 year olds is more for the adults than it is for the kids. $porting goods stores, bat companie$, administrator$ of "elite" tournament$. All the while the kids would rather play soccer-basketball with their less talented friends.
How many Bryce Harpers are there?? That is the question I think more parents need to be asked

Gov Clinton -- I think you've answered your own question
 
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