Spring Training Gamethread/Discussion

What have we learned today?

For starters Keith has the worst sense of humor ever created. Secondly Heyward is worth 25 million a season.
 
nsacpi said:
Heyward is a more valuable player than Freeman. He will be paid more.
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Once he performs to his potential for a full season+? Sure. Until then, you would be paying him what he would be worth if he performs to his potential. Why would the Braves take all the risk with no discount?
 
Dalyn said:
Once he performs to his potential for a full season+? Sure. Until then, you would be paying him what he would be worth if he performs to his potential. Why would the Braves take all the risk with no discount?
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Exactly. Which I believe something like this was said or implied from management. Hence why Jason doesn't have an extension from the Braves. Put together a solid healthy 2014 season and lets talk.
 
Dalyn said:
Once he performs to his potential for a full season+? Sure. Until then, you would be paying him what he would be worth if he performs to his potential. Why would the Braves take all the risk with no discount?
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In his four seasons Jason averaged 4.1 WAR per year. Freddie's average is 3.3. Jason's best season was 6.4. Freddie's best season was 4.8. So whether you look by average performance or season best, Jason has been the more valuable player. Even with having some injuries. Think about that.

Personally, I'm hoping for an MVP season from Freeman since we have already signed him. And a good but not great season from Jason. If Jason has an MVP type season, he'll get very expensive.
 
Jason is a great defensive player so its hard to use this as a knock against him but WAR is not an exact science. I think he will grade out beautifully with this new technology available for you have to take WAR with a grain of salt.
 
nsacpi said:
In his four seasons Jason averaged 4.1 WAR per year. Freddie's average is 3.3. Jason's best season was 6.4. Freddie's best season was 4.8. So whether you look by average performance or season best, Jason has been the more valuable player. Even with having some injuries. Think about that.

Personally, I'm hoping for an MVP season from Freeman since we have already signed him. And a good but not great season from Jason. If Jason has an MVP type season, he'll get very expensive.
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If Jason has a big season. We have been hearing that same old tune for years now.
 
thethe said:
Jason is a great defensive player so its hard to use this as a knock against him but WAR is not an exact science. I think he will grade out beautifully with this new technology available for you have to take WAR with a grain of salt.
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I don't think anyone claims WAR is perfect. But I think everyone would agree that defense is very important and needs to be taken into account when valuing a player. And I think most people would say that while Freddie is the better hitter Jason is the more valuable player overall, even allowing for his tendency so far to miss more playing time than Freeman.
 
nsacpi said:
I don't think anyone claims WAR is perfect. But I think everyone would agree that defense is very important and needs to be taken into account when valuing a player. And I think most people would say that while Freddie is the better hitter Jason is the more valuable player overall, even allowing for his tendency so far to miss more playing time than Freeman.
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True, but it's apparent that teams do not value defensive stats over offensive stats when determining salary....see Adrelton and Freddie...if we want to go by WAR alone without consideration of defensive or offensive. Adrelton has an average WAR of almost 5, and defense is not luck dependent like offense is somewhat is. If you take into consideration that a third of Heyward's WAR is from defense, I think 20 million is too much to commit to him at the moment. He probably should be higher than Freeman, but probably by only a couple million a season so maybe $17.5 million per, but since he has not had a full healthy season in his career you may have to knock some of that salary off.
 
nsacpi said:
Jason has already had two seasons that match or exceed anything Freddie has put up so far.
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That is based on the assumptions that are not only built into the WAR model but also of how much value to attach to defense.
 
thethe said:
That is based on the assumptions that are not only built into the WAR model but also of how much value to attach to defense.
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As I noted earlier no one thinks WAR is perfect. But everyone agrees defense is very important in valuing a player. And most would say that in terms of overall value, Heyward is superior to Freeman. Not theoretically, but based on actual performance during their major league careers, even accounting for Heyward's tendency to get injured more often so far.

WAR can be complemented by a better system, the market. A player like Ellsbury has a significant part of his value derived from defense and the market pays him accordingly. Andrelton Simmons got a contract that suggests statistical systems like WAR that attempt to take defensive value into account are not inconsistent with the dollars a club is willing to pay players.
 
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