2016 Presidential Primaries [ SUPER TUESDAY | 3-1-'16]

Heywood said:
I think people are becoming less entangled with how derogatory that term has become (like the term liberal).

Besides, we've had socialism in this country for decades. People just don't want to admit or accept that we have already had socialism. Politicians on the right seems to defend social security and medicare as if it were conservative ideology, when they're actually socialist programs.
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Just because a country has social programs doesn't make it a socialistic country. Those social programs by the way are in need of a major overhaul to work in the long run. Socialism has never really worked. Even countries that have had slight successes would still rank less than most states in the US in per capita GDP. And those countries are largely doing better because they've become more capitalist in regards to their regulations. US has become way too over regulated. Something Sanders just wants to expand upon. By the way European socialist countries have less regulations that the US and every one of those countries has a better economic freedom rating.

I do agree though that the US has trended toward socialism lately. Likely the reason for our lame recovery.
 
weso1 said:
No way he gets on the ticket. I'm hopeful he'll run third party.
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Oh he won't. Hillary is 1000000% sure getting the nod.

People can elect a socialist and I'll take the guy who ran the 15th highest GDP in the world. And did a pretty good job at it.
 
sturg33 said:
You do realize that you and others said the exact same thing about Paul... what's different this time?
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Paul's own party alienated him and even had Fox News drown him out.

Sanders is an independent that caucuses with the Dems.

He also hasn't had any Democrats (major or minor) speak out against him. If Sanders by some miracle wins the nomination, and manages to get on a debate stage against someone like Jeb, he's probably going to hit all the right notes. He's been speaking out against Wall Street, for middle class families, for immigration reform, same sex marriage, universal healthcare for many many years. Now a good portion of the population and the voting electorate is starting to catchup with those issues too.

I was a Ron Paul guy when I was a teen, only because I loved how he shook the establishment and made the neo-cons sweat on stage, and actually thought libertarianism was a realistic solution. Then I grew up and was exposed to the real world.
 
sturg33 said:
You do realize that you and others said the exact same thing about Paul... what's different this time?
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when someone can show me an actual path to victory for republicans, i might take that question serious

since, Bernie would be picking up the dem vote and a large portion of the swing/independent vote

live in reality and talk about the situation.
 
I think the 'path' to Republican victory has been clear for the past 4 years or so; cling to economic issues that resound with the middle class (or what's left of it), pander to the lower caste, and then hope to siphon fringe voters with strong, contrasting positions on issues like immigration, international affairs, the military/defense.

I'd be more interested to learn a plausible scenario where Bernie might achieve serious consideration without fracturing the Democratic base.
 
Hawk said:
I think the 'path' to Republican victory has been clear for the past 4 years or so; cling to economic issues that resound with the middle class (or what's left of it), pander to the lower caste, and then hope to siphon fringe voters with strong, contrasting positions on issues like immigration, international affairs, the military/defense.

I'd be more interested to learn a plausible scenario where Bernie might achieve serious consideration without fracturing the Democratic base.
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No way that Bernie will come out ahead of The Clintons with their power and money. Hillary has the minorities and Women and Bernie will garner all the 'cool' votes. Worst thing the democrats could do is fracture their base. I'm all for that happening though.
 
There are Democrats who would not vote for an independent socialist. I haven't voted Republican in my entire life and I'd have a hard time voting for Sanders. Hillary isn't the most likeable candidate, but she's the best we have. I don't really see an obvious alternative who could emerge. O'Malley has some issues and isn't getting traction although I'm curious about Warner. I don't know enough about him, but early reports seem to be that he has some issues and is unlikely to be serious.

Also don't underestimate Jeb Bush. He could be dangerous. I also wouldn't discount Chris Christie although he does have his problems. They're not all Donald Trump or Ted Cruz. We can't just nominate anyone.
 
Hawk said:
I think the 'path' to Republican victory has been clear for the past 4 years or so; cling to economic issues that resound with the middle class (or what's left of it), pander to the lower caste, and then hope to siphon fringe voters with strong, contrasting positions on issues like immigration, international affairs, the military/defense.

I'd be more interested to learn a plausible scenario where Bernie might achieve serious consideration without fracturing the Democratic base.
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how are they doing that in swing states? which states are they going to flip?

the republicans are in no way the party of the middle class or lower. none of their policies help them and certainly don't rebuild the middle class

if he get the nomination, i really don't see it as being hard. if he "fractured" the base. the base of the dems would come together and most of the social indi's would swing his way imo.
 
I think the path to republican victory is to emphasize state freedom. They can do that in a number of ways even without mentioning states. They need to emphasize the importance of self freedom. It's not a difficult sell. Most folks want to embrace the idea of freedom. The liberals are not offering that at this time. Sanders is trying to sell it, but only the far left is buying it. I also think they need a candidate that appears both relateable and presidential. That's a tough find. Here are the candidates that I think are presidential.

Bush
Carson
Perry
Jindal
Fiorina
Trump
Rubio
Cruz
Graham
Huckabee
Pataki
Paul
Santorum
Walker

I think all of those legit contenders give off that presidential vibe. So let's narrow it down to those who are presidential and relatable.

Bush
Perry
Rubio
Huckabee
Paul
Carson
Cruz
Walker
Trump

I think the ultimate wildcard is Kusinich who is highly relatable but lacks that presidential feel. If he can find that then he might wind up being that dude. It's an awesome list and should be a lot of fun to watch the republican debates whether you want them to fail or not. Just a great list of differing personalities. Every single one of them has major flaws. There is no Obama here. There is no Obama on the left either though.
 
goldfly said:
when someone can show me an actual path to victory for republicans, i might take that question serious

since, Bernie would be picking up the dem vote and a large portion of the swing/independent vote

live in reality and talk about the situation.
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You are defending Bernie's chances to win and you're grumping about another poster's ability to live in reality? I mean this a self described socialist trying to get the majority of Americans to vote for him.
 
weso1 said:
You are defending Bernie's chances to win and you're grumping about another poster's ability to live in reality? I mean this a self described socialist trying to get the majority of Americans to vote for him.
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correct

if he can get the nomination for the dems and knowing the political map, that isn't that crazy. it is an uphill battle to defeat Hillary but there is a better chance of that than looking at the political map and saying republicans have a good shot at winning with anyone in that clown car

which states will any of those guys flip to make up the difference?
 
weso1 said:
You are defending Bernie's chances to win and you're grumping about another poster's ability to live in reality? I mean this a self described socialist trying to get the majority of Americans to vote for him.
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Bernie would start with about 35% of the vote. And down about 35% of the vote. The right republican could beat him. But he could also beat a lot of the republican field. I think the only republican that owuld have a good shot of beating him would be Paul.

I mean in the end Hilary will walk away with the win. It's a given. She's got this wrapped up and she should crush the R field because aside from Paul, it's impressively weak.
 
goldfly said:
correct

if he can get the nomination for the dems and knowing the political map, that isn't that crazy. it is an uphill battle to defeat Hillary but there is a better chance of that than looking at the political map and saying republicans have a good shot at winning with anyone in that clown car

which states will any of those guys flip to make up the difference?
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The republican candidate would likely win all of the toss up states and probably most of the blue blood states as well. I mean Sanders is arguably the most extremist candidate of either party. I just don't see it happening. He doesn't have any of Obama's traits either.
 
zitothebrave said:
Bernie would start with about 35% of the vote. And down about 35% of the vote. The right republican could beat him. But he could also beat a lot of the republican field. I think the only republican that owuld have a good shot of beating him would be Paul.

I mean in the end Hilary will walk away with the win. It's a given. She's got this wrapped up and she should crush the R field because aside from Paul, it's impressively weak.
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I think you are drunk and in the morning you will rethink this one. I mean could he beat Trump? Maybe but it would be close. Why would it be close? Because Sanders is a socialist and Trump struggles to make his points without offending the majority of Americans. It's a good rivalry. Could he beat the more legit contenders? No.
 
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