2016 Presidential Primaries [ SUPER TUESDAY | 3-1-'16]
- Thread starter 57Brave
- Start date
bravesnumberone
Well-known member
Cruz people putting out an email about Nevada being Rubio's firewall and how he's not viable because he didn't beat Trump there.
LOL.
LOL.
zitothebrave
Connoisseur of Minors
To be blunt, the caucus system seems to heavily favor republicans. I don't know why but it seems like in general democrats show up better to primaries than caucuses while republicans show up strong to both.
50PoundHead
Hessmania Forever
He has the same playbook as my old pal Michelle Bachmann. Politics is a contact sport and most every candidate is going to throw an elbow after the whistle (my Gerald Ford commemorative sports analogy for this post), but Cruz has this "end justifies the means" approach with a Bible verse coming out of his mouth to hoodwink his followers. Bachmann is pretty much reviled by legitimate conservatives in Minnesota for antics like this and she was even worse behind closed doors.
As for Trump, I am less frightened by a possible Trump administration than both. We would likely suffer in the world's eyes, which is never a good thing. His "America First (and Last and Always)" approach doesn't fit in a world that is becoming more interdependent, but other than that, he's pretty much a blank slate. I think that is what scares people, especially conservatives. From his rhetoric, I think he might be the toughest candidate on Wall Street in the entire race. I think that's largely because he has been elbow-to-elbow with both Old Money and Noveau Riche and he just can't stand them personally. On other issues, he pretty much looks like a pragmatist to me. The problem for the country (and we saw it in Minnesota with Ventura) is that if he becomes President, he will do without a set of legislative allies and as we've seen--for both good and ill over the past few decades--there has been a strong reemergence of the concept of Separation of Powers and whoever controls the House and Senate will likely fight Trump at every opportunity. If he wins, I see four years of getting even less done that has happened recently.
I can't remember the exact post about Trump's charisma (which he certainly has in spades), but he plays the crowds and the media extremely well. Again, Minnesotans saw that with Ventura. The problem with most candidates and legislators today is that they read polls constantly and hire experts of all stripes to tell them how to be and act to the extent that it has drained authenticity out of the process. Trump has been in an industry where he is constantly negotiating and using real people skills. Add to that the fact he's been a huge personality and you can see how he has developed his communication skills in both types of settings. That doesn't necessarily mean the guy has a core set of beliefs outside of his love of winning, but people love seeing a candidate who is unedited.
50PoundHead
Hessmania Forever
This should scare Dems more than anything. It shows where the electoral "energy" is. It's usually young people flocking to caucuses and primaries that inflate numbers on the Democratic side (as they did for Obama), but Trump is bringing a lot of previously-uninvolved people into the process in the form of middle-aged white guys.
50PoundHead
Hessmania Forever
For all I know, Cruz is a decent guy (who really knows and his actions speak otherwise), but I think he's one of those guys who sends the needle on everyone's BS meter into the red when he starts talking.
Julio3000
<B>A Chip Off the Old Rock</B>
The novelty of Bernie notwithstanding, Democrats aren't exactly aflame with passion for the wealth of choices they've been offered.
Really makes you realize how special Obama was. His brand basically dwarfed the Clinton brand which for years was the Name to Beat in politics. I remember when Hillary won senate seat it was only a matter of time. Now we're all pretty much Clinton-Fatigued.
50PoundHead
Hessmania Forever
I think Hillary's heir-apparency kept a lot of people out and the Dems haven't done a very good job of developing the bench. Some interesting folks out there, but none really appeared ready for the big stage. If the Rs win the White House, we'll probably see as big a slate for 2020 on the D side as we did for the R side this year.
goldfly
<B>if my thought dreams could be seen</B>
I pulled the 11 cents from your link for that story
Do you not like your source now or something?
sturg33
I
No... 11 cents is correct... but I know % is hard for you to understand.
That is a massive increase for a dirt poor country (thanks socialism!) on massively subsidized product
goldfly
<B>if my thought dreams could be seen</B>
I'm not sure what you are trying to attack/talk **** about me over then
But hey, enjoy it
sturg33
I
Hopefully we can get your wish and be more like Venezuela
goldfly
<B>if my thought dreams could be seen</B>
Where have I said those words?
Julio3000
<B>A Chip Off the Old Rock</B>
Noted.
I had an experience many years ago (I think it was 02, might have been 04) while volunteering as a poll worker during a Democratic primary. One of my fellow volunteers was a woman in her late 60s (who, as it turned out, was a close relative of one of the few Democrats who'd held elective office in my neck of the woods) whom I talked to some during the proceedings. After the polls closed and we wrapped up I offered to drive her home, as she was stuck waiting for a ride. The polling place was located in an area where Latino migration was concentrated, and we passed an old elementary school which had been reconstituted as a Head Start facility that housed various programs supporting ESL and other services geared toward children of the migrant population. As we're driving by it, the lady says "Damn, we'll do for the Julios but we won't do for our own people."
Sometimes it's surprising where these sentiments crop up.
We'll definitely see how many of those folks—disaffected or cynical for one reason or another, whether economic, nativist, cultural, or some combination—Trump can attract in the general. But that's a question for the general election. In the meantime, you seem a tad sensitive about my opinions with regard to Republicans while Republicans are voting in Republican primaries.
Political ideology doesn't inoculate you from bad ideas, rationalizations, wish fulfillments, and confirmation bias. I've seen all of the above from my liberal friends, and engaged in them myself, I'm sure. On the issue of Trump and his appeal, you really seem to want to have it both ways, though. Hillary is history's greatest monster, and Trump is a product of America's revulsion with liberal academia (and that annoying lefty kid in class), and probably being voted for by people who would otherwise be voting in Democratic primaries.
I mean, first it was the bipartisan consensus on trade and immigration—and I actually buy that point of view, in terms of lower middle-class alienation from party politics. There's legit blame for large swathes of both parties. Now it's the so-called "culture war," per that Ben Domenech piece you posted. That's a much harder sell for me. One way or another, though, the common theme is that you're trying to tell me that "we" (we pinko culture-war-winnin' christian-hatin' know-it-all elitists) are responsible for a plurality of R primary voters buying what Donald Trump is selling.
BedellBrave
It's OVER 5,000!
And evidently Hispanics in NV.
BedellBrave
It's OVER 5,000!
Y'all got bench problem. Ain't that right 57?
BedellBrave
It's OVER 5,000!
1. Not really sensitive - just interested and wanting to engage you further. Sorry if it comes across otherwise.
2. I don't think she's the greatest monster - just a monster for the various reasons I've stated and stated too frequently no doubt.
3. You aren't responsible en toto. My response was to yours and 57's and probably other's ignoring or denying you had any part in it. I expect that sort of thing from 57 but not from more balanced posters. Thus I've said, look in the mirror.
4. The bipartisan consensus on immigration and trade explains part of Trumpism (the Cracker 'professing Christian but.." demographic). The Domenech theory explains the seemingly remainder of the professing RR Trump supporters rather well. Not sure why you'd have a hard time buying it. The more I listen and read the comments of those sorts, the more it becomes rather obvious to me at least - and I know that's anecdotal.
I'm trying to tell you we all need to look in the mirror.