2016 Presidential Primaries [ SUPER TUESDAY | 3-1-'16]

sturg33 said:
I'm no fan of Rubio... but what accomplishments did Senator Obama have before winning the Presidency?

A gift politician is much more accomplished than a great resume
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I agree. That was THE major sticking point with BO at the time for me. It didn't seem to bother most of America, so I find 57's comment...odd.
 
Granted. Though there is an obvious difference Rubio late February 2016 and Obama 2008. The apt comparison I see, and give however as much weight you think. wold be their introduction to the national stage. As Bobby Jindal s nstional introduction proved a preview, Rubio **** all over his shoes.Obama soared
 
Tapate50 said:
I agree. That was THE major sticking point with BO at the time for me. It didn't seem to bother most of America, so I find 57's comment...odd.
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People that have known and worked with Rubio , of both parties, find him to be nothing more than an,ambitious empty suit. As Christie, J Bush and now Trump are exploiting.

Obama biggest cheerleader was the senior Senator from his state and the 04 nominee
Not to mention that for whatever reason at the most tenuous time he won the Kennedy machine endorsement
For whatever reason

Rubio has no such endorsements from experienced pols

''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''

EJ Dionne ‏@EJDionne 16m16 minutes ago

Good point @jonathanchait: "Donald Trump may not represent conservatism, but he does represent conservatives."

http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2016/02/trump-represents-conservatives-not-conservatism.html …
 
The difference is there's No Positive Language From Rubio. His rhetoric seems forced and over arrogant. Obama's rhetoric in 2008 was a lot more positive.
 
sturg33 said:
I'm no fan of Rubio... but what accomplishments did Senator Obama have before winning the Presidency?

A gift politician is much more accomplished than a great resume
Click to expand...

Obama's pre-senate resume was neither deep nor particularly conventional, but it had a little more horsepower than Rubio's. There are definitely some similarities.

Obama was also a little shaky early in the campaign, but it was notable to me that he improved quickly and significantly. Jury's still out on Rubio there.
 
BedellBrave said:
Yeah, I wouldn't go with that knock on Rubio, while having been a Hope&Changer for Obama.
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Certainly true.

On the other hand, comparing 08 Obama and 16 Rubio is still a stretch. Like I said, Obama's non-political resume hits a little harder, though Rubio's state political career is flashier. Obama stepped up and crushed a prohibitive favorite in his primary, while Rubio has scuffled around in an effort to be designated the least worst Trump alternative.
 
sturg33 said:
This is why Trump is winning.. No, not because his supporters are poorly educated. But because he says "“We won the evangelicals,We won with young. We won with old. We won with highly educated. We won with poorly educated. I love the poorly educated.”

The media and his detractors only hear "I love the poorly educated"... And you will repeat this thousands of times, the media will report it thousands of times.

But what about you? Do you hate the uneducated? Because Trump says he loves them and you're making fun of him for it.

So with all the whining about things of zero substance you make him stronger. Stick with policy positions or Trump will eat you alive. Because you can spin anything and no one can spin like Trump
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He definitely is the master of spin. Imagine if Mitt Romney had said that, though. Or any other politician. Romney was the king of people taking things out of context.
 
Just because 2004-2008 Obama was the most gifted political orator of his generation and Rubio isn't doesn't qualify one over the other.

But I'd say it's a little tough to directly compare the two outside of them both being young and freshmen senators when they were running.

The overall dynamics of the election are much different too.

In 2008, Bush was immensely unpopular. Obama has pretty much hovered in the 40s during his second term with an occasional spike or two into the 50s. In 2008, Obama carried the verbal promise of removing our troops from a dumb, unpopular war and giving health care to everyone. He was young, fresh, exciting to people.

There was the historical prospect of him being the first African American president. And there was also an element of fatigue over another Clinton following a Bush who followed a Clinton who followed a Bush. Obama had some incredibly smart people working for his campaign, while Hillary made more than a few mistakes during the race. Obama was also able to point to her previous support for the war. None of this year's Republicans can say one really supports Obamacare on a large scale. The only thing they've ever even brought up is Kasich accepting the extra Medicaid money for Ohio.

Rubio being the first Hispanic president doesn't quite carry the same weight, especially when most Hispanics are likely to vote Democrat in November anyway. He and others have failed to find a winning strategy against Trump because Trump is such an anomaly who isn't beholden to traditional political rules. All these politicians have all these advisers telling them what to do and say, all the way down to what tie to wear or whether to even wear a tie. Trump couldn't care less about that ****. He could stroll out there in boxers and a wife beater if he wanted to. He didn't get this far in life without some clue of what he's doing.

Obama's rhetoric of hope and change along with his promise to bring the troops home and give health care to all were a nearly unbeatable combination. And the deal was sealed when the economy completely went in the toilet late summer/early fall of that year. McCain had gotten a pretty good bounce out of the convention and was holding his own, but then that happened.

Sure, Republicans hate Obamacare and many don't agree with Obama's foreign policy, but neither of those are as unpopular as the Iraq War was by the time 2008 rolled around. Eight months is an eternity in political elections, so there's no telling what might happen over that span that could tip the election in one direction or another.
 
I do hate the poorly educated

I hate that they are poorly educated

Everyone should hate that and work to change it
 
People bashing millenials for wanting affordable college forget that older people who lost their jobs go to vocational classes and technical schools to learn new skills. That would be just as beneficial to them teachijg new skills to those out of the job market.
 
The Don said:
The difference is there's No Positive Language From Rubio. His rhetoric seems forced and over arrogant. Obama's rhetoric in 2008 was a lot more positive.
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Sure there's positive language from him - but due to your presuppositions you wouldn't view it as positive, like Rs not viewing all Obama's "hope and change" as positive. But comparing Rubio's language to Cruz and Trump's it comes across as positive or for the petulant it sounds like the same old song-and-dance.
 
Julio3000 said:
Certainly true.

On the other hand, comparing 08 Obama and 16 Rubio is still a stretch. Like I said, Obama's non-political resume hits a little harder, though Rubio's state political career is flashier. Obama stepped up and crushed a prohibitive favorite in his primary, while Rubio has scuffled around in an effort to be designated the least worst Trump alternative.
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I'm not making such a comparison, just saying that 57's critique is partisan hypocrisy.
 
bravesnumberone said:
Just because 2004-2008 Obama was the most gifted political orator of his generation and Rubio isn't doesn't qualify one over the other.

But I'd say it's a little tough to directly compare the two outside of them both being young and freshmen senators when they were running.

The overall dynamics of the election are much different too.

In 2008, Bush was immensely unpopular. Obama has pretty much hovered in the 40s during his second term with an occasional spike or two into the 50s. In 2008, Obama carried the verbal promise of removing our troops from a dumb, unpopular war and giving health care to everyone. He was young, fresh, exciting to people.

There was the historical prospect of him being the first African American president. And there was also an element of fatigue over another Clinton following a Bush who followed a Clinton who followed a Bush. Obama had some incredibly smart people working for his campaign, while Hillary made more than a few mistakes during the race. Obama was also able to point to her previous support for the war. None of this year's Republicans can say one really supports Obamacare on a large scale. The only thing they've ever even brought up is Kasich accepting the extra Medicaid money for Ohio.

Rubio being the first Hispanic president doesn't quite carry the same weight, especially when most Hispanics are likely to vote Democrat in November anyway. He and others have failed to find a winning strategy against Trump because Trump is such an anomaly who isn't beholden to traditional political rules. All these politicians have all these advisers telling them what to do and say, all the way down to what tie to wear or whether to even wear a tie. Trump couldn't care less about that ****. He could stroll out there in boxers and a wife beater if he wanted to. He didn't get this far in life without some clue of what he's doing.

Obama's rhetoric of hope and change along with his promise to bring the troops home and give health care to all were a nearly unbeatable combination. And the deal was sealed when the economy completely went in the toilet late summer/early fall of that year. McCain had gotten a pretty good bounce out of the convention and was holding his own, but then that happened.

Sure, Republicans hate Obamacare and many don't agree with Obama's foreign policy, but neither of those are as unpopular as the Iraq War was by the time 2008 rolled around. Eight months is an eternity in political elections, so there's no telling what might happen over that span that could tip the election in one direction or another.
Click to expand...

Well put.
 
The Don said:
People bashing millenials for wanting affordable college forget that older people who lost their jobs go to vocational classes and technical schools to learn new skills. That would be just as beneficial to them teachijg new skills to those out of the job market.
Click to expand...

Yeah, let's make college and vocational college "free." And let's do nothing addressing the costs.

From the other thread:

"...Yet the issue isn’t just how to pay for a college education. We should also be asking a more fundamental question: What am I paying for? A more feasible first step to helping students of the future is to contain costs. But where should we start?

Here’s a radical idea: What if we contained the mission of our universities to education? The story behind the story of student debt inflation is the inflation of the university into an expanding behemoth of goods and services that have little to do with education and more to do with expectations of coddled comfort. Rather than being an institution centered on education, the university now aspires to be a total institution that meets every felt need. The campus is now a sprawling complex of fitness centers and cineplexes, food courts and gargantuan coliseums. Students aren’t taking out loans to pay for an education; they’re effectively borrowing money to pay exorbitant, short-lived taxes for the privilege of living in a scripted, cocooned city.

This also explains the creeping administration that has swelled and overwhelmed faculty who teach. Indeed, as documented by the New England Center for Investigative Reporting, the number of non-academic administrative professionals and employees at U.S. colleges and universities has more than doubled in the past 25 years. This is in no small part because students — and their parents — expect the university to provide an “experience” managed by professionals. Thus college admissions and orientation morph into a panoply of fun overseen by professionals whose job descriptions are not so different from the Love Boat’s cruise director, Julie McCoy. “How can we help you enjoy yourself?” they ask. And the quality of those experiences and the “lifelong memories” they generate directly impact alumni giving..."
 
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