This doesn't really fly though given that we took on salary for 2015 and 2016 well after the BJ trade, and we would have had no clue we would have been doing that. We added all the money in the Touki trade for 2015 and then took on 10+ mil for 2016 in the Chris Johnson trade. We also added Olivera's salary after the BJ trade as well. None of those moves would really have been predictable when we moved BJ. BJ's 2017 salary obviously wasn't an issue for 2017 since we added almost that much for Kemp. We clearly weren't trying too hard to save money in the international market with all those moves to add money going on.
2016 Trade Deadline Rumors and Moves
- Thread starter Tapate50
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This doesn't really fly though given that we took on salary for 2015 and 2016 well after the BJ trade, and we would have had no clue we would have been doing that. We added all the money in the Touki trade for 2015 and then took on 10+ mil for 2016 in the Chris Johnson trade. We also added Olivera's salary after the BJ trade as well. None of those moves would really have been predictable when we moved BJ. BJ's 2017 salary obviously wasn't an issue for 2017 since we added almost that much for Kemp. We clearly weren't trying too hard to save money in the international market with all those moves to add money going on.
Gotta laugh at this thread. Some of you guys couldn't find a single drop of water in a glass that is way over half-full.
I really doubt Coppy has given an ultimatum about the trade deadline, the waiver trade period, or who will be traded when. I am also pretty confident he has things in the works that we know nothing about.
I really doubt Coppy has given an ultimatum about the trade deadline, the waiver trade period, or who will be traded when. I am also pretty confident he has things in the works that we know nothing about.
If Clint Frazier is a B+ prospect, then who on earth has 4-5 of them? I don't really get your rating system here.
UNCBlue012
Well-known member
It's insane. Watching him hit makes me hurt. He's all over the place and pulls EVERYTHING.
Well, the Touki deal was adding money in order to add long-term talent, so that's entirely different. If moving BJ allowed us to take on the Arroyo contract and add Touki, then no one should be upset we included BJ in the Kimbrel deal.
We also added money in 2016 in the CJ deal, but it reduced payroll for 2017. So we still made that move to save money...and that also flies in the face of people trying to argue that Coppy was truly attempting to put a competitive team on the field for 2016.
For 2017, perhaps we would just rather have Kemp in the lineup than BJ. So by including BJ in the Kimbrel deal, you can argue it allowed us to get Touki, replace BJ with Kemp for 2017, and still leave more room in the 2017 payroll after that. Seems like a good idea all the way around.
Who the heck would give us anything for Pierzynski, Aybar, Francoeur, or O'Flaherty? You realize that is a prerequisite for trading them, yes?
I definitely think we'll deal Johnson by tomorrow.
UNCBlue012
Well-known member
Call me crazy, but Aybar may not be completely lost because of his track record and *better* second half. That being said, it would be a Aybar+Cervenka/JJ-type trade that gives us an C prospect.
I hope we trade Teheran, honestly. That would be my best-case scenario - we trade Teheran for a haul. But I also realize that trades require two teams, and they also center on individual players with individual traits, and it's possible there just isn't a team that believes in Teheran enough to give us what we want for him.
I can make all kinds of guesses about what Coppy thinks or why he doesn't ultimately get traded, but that doesn't do me a lot of good. I have no idea at the end of the day on that. So I'm going to hope we get what we want and what Teheran should bring back in a trade, and if it doesn't happen, I'll assume it's because no one offered enough and will be happy that we still have a young, cheap, controllable, really good SP. And I'll understand that we still have plenty of time if we want to ultimately trade him.
He is a negative WAR player. There's just no reason for a team to believe he adds anything to them.
Very Long term view is correct.
Realistically we are not contending in 2017 and probably not 2018 given what's currently in the system. By that point, Julio could have been injured, his production could have declined, the market could change, etc. It's not like Julio being in the rotation will make or break this team the next 2 years. Trade him now while he's pitching lights out, the market is thin and his contract is a major plus for an acquiring team. Use him to provide more assets to help you when the window opens in 3 years.
We have still have major holes and question marks at C, 3B and OF. Use Julio to help fill those gaps.
If we had a chance to compete for the division and the pennant in '17 or '18, then I wouldn't consider moving him. But Folty, Blair, Swanson, Newcomb, Albies, Ruiz, etc. will all go through growing pains the next 2 seasons. No telling how Peterson, Demeritte or any of the low minors guys develop during that period, but most of them will not be ready to contribute for a couple more seasons. Assuming that is our true beginning of contention, it doesn't make sense to keep Julio through that period unless you are worried about the business/financial side of opening a new stadium and putting butts in the seats.
All this is a moot point if Coppy can't get the right return. But given the market, I'm confident he could get a haul tomorrow or the offseason.
Pretty much any top ten (at least) farm system. Think if we could trade T-ran for a package of Anderson, Riley, Allard and Newcomb + maybe Peterson ...not one of those guys are A's (right now). I used pitchers because that's our strength, but some (like Texas) are the same way with hitters. We are deep with B prospects in the 20's. Half the teams in baseball could put a package like that together. Think what that could do for us.
VirginiaBrave
Well-known member
We will compete next year. Coppy and two Johns have not made any secrets about it.
1. They will acquire a 3B
2. They will acquire a C
3. They will add a vet FA starter
4. Maybe even another corner OFer if they move Incarte.
5. Pen help
If they can check these off there is no reason they can't reach .500 next year and sniff the wildcard hunt.
1. They will acquire a 3B
2. They will acquire a C
3. They will add a vet FA starter
4. Maybe even another corner OFer if they move Incarte.
5. Pen help
If they can check these off there is no reason they can't reach .500 next year and sniff the wildcard hunt.
Matter of opinion there. I'd much rather have better talent in the Kimbrel deal than Kemp, he's near worthless. The Padres got tremendously more talent for Kimbrel than we did. Heck, with Wisler looking like a total bust or a #4/#5 starter at this point we pretty much got nothing out of the deal.
And Arroyo's money would have had nothing to do with moving BJ, we took on pretty close to 15 mil in salary for 2015 with Quentin and Maybin in that trade. The only thing you could possibly argue is it helps get Kemp, and even that really isn't true as we aren't even close to budget for 2017 right now.
Any top 10 farm system has 4-5 Clint Fraziers? What?
There are absolutely not 15+ teams in baseball that have 4-5 prospects I would take for Teheran. As you said, we are flush with B prospects, and a lot of them have high ceilings. Adding more is not a bad thing, but at this point if we're going to be adding more, I want it to be the cream of the crop, even if it's only 1 or 2.
Yes, I think 1-2 A prospects are preferable to 4-5 B or B+ guys. Of course, I don't consider Clint Frazier a B+ prospect.
I think the johns will make sure 2017 isn't a train wreck like this year. But in no way are we in the hunt next season.
It's a myth that the Padres got tremendously more than we did. People are down on Wisler, and understandably so, but when we got him he was the Padres' #1 prospect and a top 50 guy. We also got a good draft pick that turned into a really good prospect in his own right.
I think the Padres got a little better value in prospects than we did, but I don't think it was a big gap at the time the deals were made. And Guerra has been terrible at A+ this year, so if you want to toss Wisler out, then toss him out, too. I do like Margot but I question if he's really going to hit enough in the majors.
Ehh Wisler was coming off a year with 5 era at AAA and his star was certainly fading. I'd much rather have The bosox package than wisler
Margot is elite defensively in CF though, even if he's average offensively he'll wind up like Inciarte. And both he and Guerra were right around the top 50 prospects when traded (Guerra was #52, Margot #45), their deal was immensely better on paper. Kimbrel also had a year less of control when moved by the Padres, they without question got more talent in return considering that. Regardless of trying to make comparisons and argue semantics, moving BJ in the deal wound up being a mistake because it lost us potential talent in return. And the only gain we got was saving money in two years we aren't competing for squat anyway.
He was 21 that year, his star was absolutely not fading. That is revisionist history.
There were definitely negative reports and questions about him then.