2018 3B options

E

Enscheff

Well-known member
TC just rehashed the 3B debate today: https://www.talkingchop.com/2018/1/...s-third-base-options-coming-into-focus-sports

Since there is literally nothing else to talk about...

The obvious answer is Camargo, who is already cheap, on the roster, and possesses potential to be a glove-first average player at 3B. Assuming Mous is not an option (which I think is a logical conclusion to draw), I think there are 4 guys (Frazier, Nunez, Headley, Walker) who are both potential upgrades over Camargo at 3B, and who could qualify as "stop gaps".

Pros and cons of each...

Frazier Pros: durable, above average defender at 3B, consistently league average bat, excellent RHed power compliments Freeman.
Frazier Cons: might be too expensive, old (32) and could decline any moment.
Conclusion: If the Braves can fit another $10M+ salary into the 2018 budget, Frazier makes sense around 2/22 with an option.

Nunez Pros: cheaper than Frazier, younger than Frazier (31 vs 32), plays 3B and 2B, consistently league average bat.
Nunez Cons: poor defender at 3B and 2B, less power than Frazier, "younger than Frazier" isn't exactly young.
Conclusion: If the Braves can't afford another $10M+ salary in 2018, but can afford $5M+, Nunez would be a good option.

Headley Pros: can be had for no prospect cost, only under contract for 1 year, non-scrub player in all facets of the game.
Headley Cons: quite simply...he isn't very good and may not be much of an upgrade over Camargo.
Conclusion: If the Braves can get Headley plus ~$5M for a nothing prospect, he makes some sense to stabilize 3B.

Walker Pros: best hitter mentioned here, average defender at 2B.
Walker Cons: old (32), injury prone, would have to switch positions, might be more expensive than Frazier.
Conclusion: The market for 2B is pretty dead, so Walker's price may drop, and he may also make sense around 2/22 with an option.

Anyone I missed who qualifies as an upgrade over Camargo AND as a stop gap option since the Braves are hesistant to block Riley?
 
Enscheff said:
TC just rehashed the 3B debate today: https://www.talkingchop.com/2018/1/...s-third-base-options-coming-into-focus-sports

Since there is literally nothing else to talk about...

The obvious answer is Camargo, who is already cheap, on the roster, and possesses potential to be a glove-first average player at 3B. Assuming Mous is not an option (which I think is a logical conclusion to draw), I think there are 4 guys (Frazier, Nunez, Headley, Walker) who are both potential upgrades over Camargo at 3B, and who could qualify as "stop gaps".

Pros and cons of each...

Frazier Pros: durable, above average defender at 3B, consistently league average bat, excellent RHed power compliments Freeman.

Frazier Cons: might be too expensive, old (32) and could decline any moment.

Conclusion: If the Braves can fit another $10M+ salary into the 2018 budget, Frazier makes sense around 2/22 with an option.

Nunez Pros: cheaper than Frazier, younger than Frazier (31 vs 32), plays 3B and 2B, consistently league average bat.

Nunez Cons: poor defender at 3B and 2B, less power than Frazier, "younger than Frazier" isn't exactly young.

Conclusion: If the Braves can't afford another $10M+ salary in 2018, but can afford $5M+, Nunez would be a good option.

Headley Pros: can be had for no prospect cost, only under contract for 1 year, non-scrub player in all facets of the game.

Headley Cons: quite simply...he isn't very good and may not be much of an upgrade over Camargo.

Conclusion: If the Braves can get Headley plus ~$5M for a nothing prospect, he makes some sense to stabilize 3B.

Walker Pros: best hitter mentioned here, average defender at 2B.

Walker Cons: old (32), injury prone, would have to switch positions, might be more expensive than Frazier.

Conclusion: The market for 2B is pretty dead, so Walker's price may drop, and he may also make sense around 2/22 with an option.

Anyone I missed who qualifies as an upgrade over Camargo AND as a stop gap option since the Braves are hesistant to block Riley?
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If he would switch positions I would be ok with Brandon Phillips on a one year 4 million dollar with an option type contract. I think his hitting is still good enough to be a stop gap. I'll admit I didn't watch him at 3rd enough last year to have an opinion on his defense. One pro for him would be the ability to play 2b if needed.
 
I'd rather pass on Headley and Nunez.

Walker was one of my first preferences and Frazier makes a lot of sense as well.
 
nsacpi said:
I'd try to pick up Yandy Diaz if the price was reasonable
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An acquisition of Yandy Diaz is the opposite of a stop gap. I agree he is an intriguing option though, especially if he can increase that launch angle.

Does Profar count as a stop gap? He would be interesting too.
 
I wonder if Nunez would sign a 1-yr deal if it came down to it. It would probably have to be for an amount too rich for our blood (~$15M?). If he would take 1/$12, could we afford it, and should we do it?
 
Enscheff said:
An acquisition of Yandy Diaz is the opposite of a stop gap. I agree he is an intriguing option though, especially if he can increase that launch angle.

Does Profar count as a stop gap? He would be interesting too.
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I'd like to take a chance on Profar. Between him, Camargo, and Culberson we'd have plenty of options over a long grueling season.
 
I hadn't really thought much about Walker, but honestly he may be the best fit of all if he is willing to swap positions. I think we could minimize his injury risk by giving him several days off and it would also allow Camargo to get more at bats. If he could be had at the same price as Frazier, I may prefer trying to get Walker
 
Super said:
I wonder if Nunez would sign a 1-yr deal if it came down to it. It would probably have to be for an amount too rich for our blood (~$15M?). If he would take 1/$12, could we afford it, and should we do it?
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I don't think Nunez's defense fits in to what AA says he wants to do.
 
Enscheff said:
I think you're spot on with that conclusion. They sold Adonis to Korea, and he was a legit platoon bat.
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Garcia was released today according to DOB after many weeks of people saying Garcia is gone.

From MLBTR ---

The Braves have announced that third baseman Adonis Garcia was released to allow him to pursue an opportunity in the Korea Baseball Organization. Previous reports indicated that Garcia, who is represented by Don Nomura, had agreed to join Korea’s LG Twins.

Garcia, 32, had carved out a significant role in Atlanta, though he missed significant time due to a finger injury and struggled at the plate in 2017. In the prior season, though, he saw near-regular time, turning in 563 plate appearances of .273/.311/.406 hitting.

With the move, the Braves have parted with one possible option at third base. Just how they’ll fill it remains to be seen. At this point, youngster Johan Camargo — who emerged with an intriguing 2017 season — is perhaps the odds-on favorite to see most of the time. That said, the club may yet pursue alternatives on the open market or via trade.
 
To me playing comargo and or rio is a clear punt.

There are going to be clear upgrades that can be had for two years or less of a commitment
 
I'll be interested in seeing what we do with the new 40 man roster spot by the offical release of Adonis that we knew was coming. If we take a flier on someone that may mean nothing is in the works. If we leave it open we may have something brewing.
 
Chico said:
I'll be interested in seeing what we do with the new 40 man roster spot by the offical release of Adonis that we knew was coming. If we take a flier on someone that may mean nothing is in the works. If we leave it open we may have something brewing.
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They're likely going to go into the season with at least one spot open so they don't need to shuffle much whenever Acuna's promoted.
 
I'd be tempted to go with Frazier. Seems like a good guy to set an example for the younger guys. I think he'd go really great with us as complementary piece if we were actually in a position to contend for a championship, which, unfortunately, we're not.

But as Enscheff mentioned, with our luck, he would go off a cliff at his age.

At this point, I'd just say it's time to see what we really have in Camargo.
 
At Enscheff's suggestion, I went and I took a look at Yandy Diaz and I'm starting to think he might be a terrific option. He just needs a tweak or two and he could be very good. He also has a ton of cheap control left and could probably be had very cheaply. What do you guys think it would take to acquire him? I'm thinking a 45 FV pitcher might get it done
 
BeanieAntics said:
At Enscheff's suggestion, I went and I took a look at Yandy Diaz and I'm starting to think he might be a terrific option. He just needs a tweak or two and he could be very good. He also has a ton of cheap control left and could probably be had very cheaply. What do you guys think it would take to acquire him? I'm thinking a 45 FV pitcher might get it done
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Hard to say. The Indians are a pretty smart organization, so they undoubtedly know he is a candidate to change his launch angle. It should be pretty common knowledge in modern day FOs that guys with plus exit velocities should hit more fly balls if their K rates suggest they can make such a change without cratering their ability to make contact.

Maybe the Indians know he can improve, don't want to trade him, but also don't want to rely on him making such a change in the middle of their championship window.

If he is priced accordingly in trade talks, he might not be the bargain we hope he is. One of the main theories about why this offseason is so slow is that all FOs are using the same data and are drawing largely the same conclusions, so it's hard to find scenarios where one team values a player more than another team.
 
Enscheff said:
Hard to say. The Indians are a pretty smart organization, so they undoubtedly know he is a candidate to change his launch angle. It should be pretty common knowledge in modern day FOs that guys with plus exit velocities should hit more fly balls if their K rates suggest they can make such a change without cratering their ability to make contact.

Maybe the Indians know he can improve, don't want to trade him, but also don't want to rely on him making such a change in the middle of their championship window.

If he is priced accordingly in trade talks, he might not be the bargain we hope he is. One of the main theories about why this offseason is so slow is that all FOs are using the same data and are drawing largely the same conclusions, so it's hard to find scenarios where one team values a player more than another team.
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my theory is that the marlins fire sale is holding things up. I think this is true but to what extent?

my other theory is that teams are finally figuring out that most of these long term deals are dumb. I don't believe this b/c teams usually keep making dumb decisions. But maybe we are at the time where agents and teams are at a stale mate discussing terms b/c teams don't want these payments going out for years and years. I don't believe it, but I hope it's true. I want the players to get their money b/c they deserve it. I just want higher value and less length to avoid these stupid decline phase deals. Or maybe front loaded contracts instead of back loaded.
 
Russ2dollas said:
my theory is that the marlins fire sale is holding things up. I think this is true but to what extent?

my other theory is that teams are finally figuring out that most of these long term deals are dumb. I don't believe this b/c teams usually keep making dumb decisions. But maybe we are at the time where agents and teams are at a stale mate discussing terms b/c teams don't want these payments going out for years and years. I don't believe it, but I hope it's true. I want the players to get their money b/c they deserve it. I just want higher value and less length to avoid these stupid decline phase deals. Or maybe front loaded contracts instead of back loaded.
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Agreed. Stanton and Ohtani held the entire MLB offseason hostage from day 1.

The 4th factor holding everything up is the impending mega FA class next year. Traditional big spenders like the Dodgers and Yankees are bending over backwards to reset their luxury tax in preparation to dole out record contracts next offseason. Without those big spenders bidding up the price of the top guys, everyone is sitting around waiting for a bargain.

The 5th factor is that MLB is in this odd state where there are a handful of super teams (Dodgers, Yankees, Nats, Astros, Cubs, Red Sox) and a bunch of also-rans with little to no shot at playoff contention. The super teams don't "need" expensive FAs to make the playoffs, and the bad teams aren't even bothering with expensive FAs because they suck.

It's this (hopefully) once in a generation perfect storm of market suppressing events making for the slowest offseason in recent memory.
 
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