2019 Trade Deadline Thread:

I know the Braves wont get in the bidding war for Cole, but just saying it's what i'd do.

And Thor hasnt been very good and would cost a ton.

Braves have alot of money coming off the books this winter, and Ozzie/Ronnie are locked up on team friendly deals. I guess we could use the money on internal players like Swanson, giving Freeman a new deal. Re-signing Keuchel and JD, Swarkak, etc.
 
nsacpi said:
the answer is it isn't worth rolling the dice like that with any pitcher...it will sometimes work out, but big long-term contracts at market price to pitchers are not a thing a mid-market team should be contemplating
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I don't entirely disagree with that at all. The point is that if I personally were targeting one of the few true front-end guys, Cole would be the one I'd go after rather than Syndergaard or anyone else. He's the one I think has the best chance to eventually give you a Verlander or Scherzer type of career - and everyone understands that those chances are slim.

Just a personal preference, and not sure why anyone making a statement like that throws the whole world here into such a tizzy. Not trying to justify it with numbers or trying to convince anyone else to join me or "change to my side". I have no problem admitting I'm an armchair GM just like everyone else here - the difference is, I like just being a fan too, and I'd love to see somebody like Cole fronting the rotation for as long as we have control of Acuna and Ozzie. It's not my money, and it'd be awfully exciting if it worked out like the very select few have. Unlike several people around here, I could care less whether that's what anyone else would do - and I don't take it personally if they don't agree.
 
zbhargrove said:
Your argument is literally, "Verlander and Cole are the same pitcher so a long contract for Cole would work out exactly the same"

Surely you can even understand how dumb that sounds.
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That's my argument? Please provide a link to where I said that.
 
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Tempting but cant trade Waters for two rentals.
 
More i read into him, Wheeler is the guy i want AA to get. Hometown guy, so he could re-sign as well. Not sure what he'd cost in a trade though.
 
ESPN trades......
4. The Braves acquire RHP Trevor Bauer from the Indians for LHP Sean Newcomb, LHP Kolby Allard and a prospect outside of the Braves' top 10.

The Braves' most pressing need is for an ace to head up their postseason rotation, and if Bauer indeed becomes available, he'd fit the bill better than anyone. Lots of suitors would realize this. My assumption is that the next couple of weeks will clarify Bauer's availability. If the Indians continue their recent surge and look positioned to challenge Minnesota in the AL Central, it's tough to see them justifying a later-for-now trade.

But if Bauer is moved, then Cleveland would find a perfect trade partner in the prospect-rich Braves. Newcomb was one of the better lefties in baseball just last season, though he has struggled in 2019 and landed in the Atlanta bullpen. Allard is still only 21 and, along with Newcomb, would deepen the Indians' rotation options right away while providing a good bit of remaining upside. And, of course, they'd be a lot cheaper than Bauer will be the rest of this season and in his 2020 season, his last of arbitration eligibility.

Complicating matters in a potential Bauer trade is his stated desire (aren't all of Bauer's desires stated?) to go year by year when it comes to his future contracts. That wouldn't necessarily mean he'd bolt Atlanta after next season, but it would be interesting to know how that might factor into the calculations of general managers around baseball when valuing a Bauer return.
 
Heyward said:
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Tempting but cant trade Waters for two rentals.
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Packaging those 2 arms together might get the Giants a FV 55 position prospect, but I have my doubts any team is going to prefer that duo for a single 55 to getting Smith for a package of 40s, and another SP like Wheeler for a 50. I would much rather see the Braves deal from non-elite depth than give up one of their top assets.

This idea that the Giants want to package Bumgarner and Smith together is sound, but the major hole is that another team has to be willing to give up a premium asset for the package rather than using lesser parts to get similar arms separately. This isn't the first time a team has sold multiple rentals, and we rarely see multiple rentals packaged together for a reason...
 
Russ2dollas said:
ESPN trades......
4. The Braves acquire RHP Trevor Bauer from the Indians for LHP Sean Newcomb, LHP Kolby Allard and a prospect outside of the Braves' top 10.

The Braves' most pressing need is for an ace to head up their postseason rotation, and if Bauer indeed becomes available, he'd fit the bill better than anyone. Lots of suitors would realize this. My assumption is that the next couple of weeks will clarify Bauer's availability. If the Indians continue their recent surge and look positioned to challenge Minnesota in the AL Central, it's tough to see them justifying a later-for-now trade.

But if Bauer is moved, then Cleveland would find a perfect trade partner in the prospect-rich Braves. Newcomb was one of the better lefties in baseball just last season, though he has struggled in 2019 and landed in the Atlanta bullpen. Allard is still only 21 and, along with Newcomb, would deepen the Indians' rotation options right away while providing a good bit of remaining upside. And, of course, they'd be a lot cheaper than Bauer will be the rest of this season and in his 2020 season, his last of arbitration eligibility.

Complicating matters in a potential Bauer trade is his stated desire (aren't all of Bauer's desires stated?) to go year by year when it comes to his future contracts. That wouldn't necessarily mean he'd bolt Atlanta after next season, but it would be interesting to know how that might factor into the calculations of general managers around baseball when valuing a Bauer return.
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Trading for Bauer may or may not make sense, but if he really goes year to year he could be a legit option for AA to splurge on if needed.
 
The fact that Bauer has stated his desire to go year to year on contracts makes him easily the most desirable trade target for us if the Indians decide to move him. I think that adds to his value and it doesn't complicate anything.
 
clvclv said:
I'll roll those dice with Cole much quicker than I would with any soon-to-be free-agent (next couple years). If anyone projects to be the "next Verlander", it's him.

This mid-market team will never be in a better position to take that risk than it is now, and if AA doesn't go chasing the Syndergaards of the world the depth is there to work around anything other than a career-ending injury to Cole.

You did all this work to create a window, here it is - go get the player that can push you over the top, and use all this pitching depth to build an elite pen. If you gave Cole a Scherzer 7/$210 million deal, you'd control him, Acuna, and Ozzie through 2027, and Soroka through 2025, meaning you don't need Anderson to become an "Ace" - he's your #3.
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I agree. We could sign Cole to a 6 year deal and it would be over before or by the time all if our young players hit free agency. We can afford a 30 million a year pitcher because the bullpen will collectively make less than 10 million next year. The rest of the rotation should be uber cheap going forward with Folty/Gausman as the only starters in arbitration assuming we even kept both.



We will never be in so good of a spot organizationally than we are now. The team is primed to be a perennial WS contender. Like the 90s Braves added Maddux to supplement their core we should add Cole. It's all good un hindsight knowing Maddux was a hall of Famer but no one knew that at the time the Braves signed him. Pretty sure the Cubs viewed him as a bad investment because he had thrown about 500 innings combined his last 2 seasons before free agency.
 
BeanieAntics said:
The fact that Bauer has stated his desire to go year to year on contracts makes him easily the most desirable trade target for us if the Indians decide to move him. I think that adds to his value and it doesn't complicate anything.
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Do not think it really adds to his trade value.

Certainly does not detract.

It perhaps makes him a more likely target in free agency though. Maybe not if someone wants to pay him something like his projected war value.
 
If we are to pay market value for a player (whether the price is $ or prospects), it is better that it be on a short-term deal than a long-term one.

That's why a 2-year deal for Verlander or trade for Bauer is preferable to a 6-7 year deal for a pitcher like Cole or Corbin.

By definition a market value deal has zero expected surplus value. So what differentiates a short-term market deal from a long-term one is not the expected value. It is the risk around that value. In colloquial language it involves putting a lot of your eggs in one basket. Large market teams will price that risk in a way that mid or small market teams should not.
 
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Southcack77 said:
Do not think it really adds to his trade value.

Certainly does not detract.

It perhaps makes him a more likely target in free agency though. Maybe not if someone wants to pay him something like his projected war value.
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Value was probably the wrong word to use there because I agree that it wouldn't enhance the package going back to the Indians. I meant value in the sense that we would value a player like that more than a player like Bumgarner who will demand multiple years, all else being equal. Meaning that we would prefer him to someone like Bumgarner.
 
Comparing the first Maddux contract to Cole...

Sigh...

Maddux won a CYA in 1992, was going into his age 27 season, and signed a 5 year deal worth $28M...or $5.6M per year. The Braves 1993 payroll was tied for 5th highest in MLB at $38M. The Maddux deal was about 15% of their total payroll.

Cole is just like Maddux, except that he's 2 years older, and not as good. His contract will eat up 25%+ of the Braves modern day middle of the pack payroll.

Folks clamoring for the Braves to sign Cole have no idea what they are talking about, and are living in a fantasy world. Cole is nothing like Maddux, and the 2020 Braves are nothing like the 1993 Braves. Any suggestions otherwise are pure ignorance of all facts pertaining to the matter.
 
The reason the Indians are potentially open to trading Bauer is that he's apparently a clubhouse cancer, a weirdo, and someone who is hard to control - kinda the pitching equivalent of Jose Canseco (without the roids). I don't know that any winning team wants to bring that into the clubhouse mid-season, no matter what his on field potential. Whoever trades for him is likely to get 1 WAR for the rest of the season but quite a bit of internal upheaval. Is it worth it, even with another year of control? He's likely to be a $15M+ guy next year going into FA. A QO after that night make sense (assuming it's still a thing) and if he takes it, you might stretch a year and a half of control into 2.5.

I guess it falls to a teams ability to stomach the baggage the comes along with him whatever that might be. You might hope that he grows up and normalizes a bit but he's over 28 already which likely means it's not happening. Newcomb, Allard and a guy like Thomas Burrows might be a steal for the Braves........if Bauer isn't a complete headcase once he gets here.
 
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