2020 Field
- Thread starter sturg33
- Start date
57Brave
Well-known member
That is the same tired argument as " well, Lincoln suspended hapeus corpus"
Duh, of course he did. It was his job, he would have been neglegent had he not.
Are you arguing FDR during peacetime was equaly Fascist as say, Mussolini ?
I must say that is a new one and rather revisionist
Duh, of course he did. It was his job, he would have been neglegent had he not.
Are you arguing FDR during peacetime was equaly Fascist as say, Mussolini ?
I must say that is a new one and rather revisionist
sturg33
I
So the government having a national database tracking every asset of every American....
Not fascist at all!
acesfull86
Well-known member
No I’m not saying that...I’m saying many of the elements on your list seemed to be present during FDR’s terms. Where on your list is a disclaimer that wartime doesn’t count?
acesfull86
Well-known member
Probably as many as the fraud who pretended to have a doctorate in political science to give his list credibility.
Would you argue that we haven’t had most of these elements in our society for the last 240 years, yet we haven’t become a fascist state?
57Brave
Well-known member
I trust you to see that a WW as, an extraordinary circumstance.
Why there have only been II
Have yet to see your definitions of Fascism and how they differ
..............................................................................................
For ease I will re-post the list and please point out Where FDR adopted Fascism. My reading of the list tells me the total opposite:
The 14 characteristics are:
Powerful and Continuing Nationalism
Fascist regimes tend to make constant use of patriotic mottos, slogans, symbols, songs, and other paraphernalia. Flags are seen everywhere, as are flag symbols on clothing and in public displays.
Disdain for the Recognition of Human Rights
Because of fear of enemies and the need for security, the people in fascist regimes are persuaded that human rights can be ignored in certain cases because of "need." The people tend to look the other way or even approve of torture, summary executions, assassinations, long incarcerations of prisoners, etc.
Identification of Enemies/Scapegoats as a Unifying Cause
The people are rallied into a unifying patriotic frenzy over the need to eliminate a perceived common threat or foe: racial , ethnic or religious minorities; liberals; communists; socialists, terrorists, etc.
Supremacy of the Military
Even when there are widespread domestic problems, the military is given a disproportionate amount of government funding, and the domestic agenda is neglected. Soldiers and military service are glamorized.
Rampant Sexism
The governments of fascist nations tend to be almost exclusively male-dominated. Under fascist regimes, traditional gender roles are made more rigid. Opposition to abortion is high, as is homophobia and anti-gay legislation and national policy.
Controlled Mass Media
Sometimes to media is directly controlled by the government, but in other cases, the media is indirectly controlled by government regulation, or sympathetic media spokespeople and executives. Censorship, especially in war time, is very common.
Obsession with National Security
Fear is used as a motivational tool by the government over the masses.
Religion and Government are Intertwined
Governments in fascist nations tend to use the most common religion in the nation as a tool to manipulate public opinion. Religious rhetoric and terminology is common from government leaders, even when the major tenets of the religion are diametrically opposed to the government's policies or actions.
Corporate Power is Protected
The industrial and business aristocracy of a fascist nation often are the ones who put the government leaders into power, creating a mutually beneficial business/government relationship and power elite.
Labor Power is Suppressed
Because the organizing power of labor is the only real threat to a fascist government, labor unions are either eliminated entirely, or are severely suppressed .
Disdain for Intellectuals and the Arts
Fascist nations tend to promote and tolerate open hostility to higher education, and academia. It is not uncommon for professors and other academics to be censored or even arrested. Free expression in the arts is openly attacked, and governments often refuse to fund the arts.
Obsession with Crime and Punishment
Under fascist regimes, the police are given almost limitless power to enforce laws. The people are often willing to overlook police abuses and even forego civil liberties in the name of patriotism. There is often a national police force with virtually unlimited power in fascist nations.
Rampant Cronyism and Corruption
Fascist regimes almost always are governed by groups of friends and associates who appoint each other to government positions and use governmental power and authority to protect their friends from accountability. It is not uncommon in fascist regimes for national resources and even treasures to be appropriated or even outright stolen by government leaders.
Fraudulent Elections
Sometimes elections in fascist nations are a complete sham. Other times elections are manipulated by smear campaigns against or even assassination of opposition candidates, use of legislation to control voting numbers or political district boundaries, and manipulation of the media. Fascist nations also typically use their judiciaries to manipulate or control elections
Why there have only been II
Have yet to see your definitions of Fascism and how they differ
..............................................................................................
For ease I will re-post the list and please point out Where FDR adopted Fascism. My reading of the list tells me the total opposite:
The 14 characteristics are:
Powerful and Continuing Nationalism
Fascist regimes tend to make constant use of patriotic mottos, slogans, symbols, songs, and other paraphernalia. Flags are seen everywhere, as are flag symbols on clothing and in public displays.
Disdain for the Recognition of Human Rights
Because of fear of enemies and the need for security, the people in fascist regimes are persuaded that human rights can be ignored in certain cases because of "need." The people tend to look the other way or even approve of torture, summary executions, assassinations, long incarcerations of prisoners, etc.
Identification of Enemies/Scapegoats as a Unifying Cause
The people are rallied into a unifying patriotic frenzy over the need to eliminate a perceived common threat or foe: racial , ethnic or religious minorities; liberals; communists; socialists, terrorists, etc.
Supremacy of the Military
Even when there are widespread domestic problems, the military is given a disproportionate amount of government funding, and the domestic agenda is neglected. Soldiers and military service are glamorized.
Rampant Sexism
The governments of fascist nations tend to be almost exclusively male-dominated. Under fascist regimes, traditional gender roles are made more rigid. Opposition to abortion is high, as is homophobia and anti-gay legislation and national policy.
Controlled Mass Media
Sometimes to media is directly controlled by the government, but in other cases, the media is indirectly controlled by government regulation, or sympathetic media spokespeople and executives. Censorship, especially in war time, is very common.
Obsession with National Security
Fear is used as a motivational tool by the government over the masses.
Religion and Government are Intertwined
Governments in fascist nations tend to use the most common religion in the nation as a tool to manipulate public opinion. Religious rhetoric and terminology is common from government leaders, even when the major tenets of the religion are diametrically opposed to the government's policies or actions.
Corporate Power is Protected
The industrial and business aristocracy of a fascist nation often are the ones who put the government leaders into power, creating a mutually beneficial business/government relationship and power elite.
Labor Power is Suppressed
Because the organizing power of labor is the only real threat to a fascist government, labor unions are either eliminated entirely, or are severely suppressed .
Disdain for Intellectuals and the Arts
Fascist nations tend to promote and tolerate open hostility to higher education, and academia. It is not uncommon for professors and other academics to be censored or even arrested. Free expression in the arts is openly attacked, and governments often refuse to fund the arts.
Obsession with Crime and Punishment
Under fascist regimes, the police are given almost limitless power to enforce laws. The people are often willing to overlook police abuses and even forego civil liberties in the name of patriotism. There is often a national police force with virtually unlimited power in fascist nations.
Rampant Cronyism and Corruption
Fascist regimes almost always are governed by groups of friends and associates who appoint each other to government positions and use governmental power and authority to protect their friends from accountability. It is not uncommon in fascist regimes for national resources and even treasures to be appropriated or even outright stolen by government leaders.
Fraudulent Elections
Sometimes elections in fascist nations are a complete sham. Other times elections are manipulated by smear campaigns against or even assassination of opposition candidates, use of legislation to control voting numbers or political district boundaries, and manipulation of the media. Fascist nations also typically use their judiciaries to manipulate or control elections
acesfull86
Well-known member
I don’t think FDR adopted fascism, nor do I think Lincoln, Reagan, Obama, or Trump adopted it.
My point is that many of the elements on the list have been present here for 240 years and we haven’t become a fascist nation.
My point is that many of the elements on the list have been present here for 240 years and we haven’t become a fascist nation.
You may as well save thirty seconds of your life and quit replying to him now.
57Brave
Well-known member
you specifically mentioned FDR and I asked you to point out which attributes of Fascism he adopted. Before 1942.
I will grant you, with my tongue planted firmly in my cheek, he did have the slogan of Happy Days are here again ...
Of course Trump has.
Are you being serious ?
1 MAGA
2 Concentration camps-this past weekend round up of brown people. Legal and otherwise
3 "Mexican rapists" Birtherism
4 His 4th of July parade. The first in our history
5 he has 20+ allegations of sexual grievance. And only women of convenience in his inner circle
6 The media is the enemy. Which, is a first. Fake news
7 N Korea debacle- border
8 Franklin Graham and the entire evangelical movement
9 The tax cuts that benefited the top 10%
10 Minimum wage
11 Hollywood elites
12 Crime and punishment --- you can fill that one in. Let me help with the name Arpaio
13 Rampant cronyism and corruption --- do I have to
14 Fraudulent Elections -- even setting aside his 2016 "victory" please see N Carolina 9th
........................................................
I will (seriously this time) grant you some have tip toed up to the edge (ex:Obama immigration policy- that was rescinded!! )
But by my count by this 2003 criteria Trump has checked ALL of the boxes.
If you have another point by point criteria -- again I will gladly look and discuss
I will grant you, with my tongue planted firmly in my cheek, he did have the slogan of Happy Days are here again ...
Of course Trump has.
Are you being serious ?
1 MAGA
2 Concentration camps-this past weekend round up of brown people. Legal and otherwise
3 "Mexican rapists" Birtherism
4 His 4th of July parade. The first in our history
5 he has 20+ allegations of sexual grievance. And only women of convenience in his inner circle
6 The media is the enemy. Which, is a first. Fake news
7 N Korea debacle- border
8 Franklin Graham and the entire evangelical movement
9 The tax cuts that benefited the top 10%
10 Minimum wage
11 Hollywood elites
12 Crime and punishment --- you can fill that one in. Let me help with the name Arpaio
13 Rampant cronyism and corruption --- do I have to
14 Fraudulent Elections -- even setting aside his 2016 "victory" please see N Carolina 9th
........................................................
I will (seriously this time) grant you some have tip toed up to the edge (ex:Obama immigration policy- that was rescinded!! )
But by my count by this 2003 criteria Trump has checked ALL of the boxes.
If you have another point by point criteria -- again I will gladly look and discuss
Last edited:
acesfull86
Well-known member
“Before 1942.”
Why the disclaimer? A nation doesn’t have to worry about any of these elements leading to fascism so long as it’s at war? That’s convenient and good to know. I don’t see that disclaimer given anywhere on the list. Would love to read more about it from Larry whoever, but apparently he’s not actually an expert in the field and hasn’t written any peer reviewed research.
Why the disclaimer? A nation doesn’t have to worry about any of these elements leading to fascism so long as it’s at war? That’s convenient and good to know. I don’t see that disclaimer given anywhere on the list. Would love to read more about it from Larry whoever, but apparently he’s not actually an expert in the field and hasn’t written any peer reviewed research.
57Brave
Well-known member
OK I'll play in 1942 Roosevelt admin rounded up Japanese citizens and interred them on military bases.
What did the enemy do ? And, how did the Facists ,be they Spanish,Italian or German round up their "enemies"
I hope you dont misunderstand I am excusing this but I do understand the logic behind it.
There were rations of food, gasoline, coal and soap. My mother told me about
Do you have other instances ? Certain there are others
Did you know that the Roosevelt Admin recruited Cosa Nostra to patrol the shores of NY and NJ ?
We literally had Facist regimes collecting people and a USJ Administration collect people
I mean
These two things aren't remotely the same.
What did the enemy do ? And, how did the Facists ,be they Spanish,Italian or German round up their "enemies"
I hope you dont misunderstand I am excusing this but I do understand the logic behind it.
There were rations of food, gasoline, coal and soap. My mother told me about
Do you have other instances ? Certain there are others
Did you know that the Roosevelt Admin recruited Cosa Nostra to patrol the shores of NY and NJ ?
We literally had Facist regimes collecting people and a USJ Administration collect people
I mean
These two things aren't remotely the same.
Digression: we also had Luciano using his contacts back in Italy to gather intelligence on what was happening there. Then when the war was over, we deported him.
Lucky got the short end of that deal
cajunrevenge
Well-known member
If I understand Republicans logic...if a black person has a job then whoever is President cant be racist against that person. Thus low unemployment for blacks equals proof the President isnt racist. So using that I guess we can now clear Obama of being racist against white people since all the ones doing the complaining had jobs.