2020 Field

My favorite part of yesterday was when Harris literally started laughing out loud when Biden told her we have to follow the Constitution
 
sturg33 said:
Seriously... what isn't a right to these people? Now we have to subsidize avoiding traffic??

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I find a certain irony in this given the fact that at least in Atlanta it’s those with money who seem to voluntarily go for long commutes from the white flight suburbs.
 
thethe said:
Maybe Limbaugh knew what the left was planning all along.

Call me a cook all you want but if you have listened to him the past you can see that his truth is coming to pass currently with the radical left.
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I don't think we need to call you a kook. What you utter is sufficient to make that patently clear. The Clintons were hardly radical leftists and that is where Limbaugh made his mark. It was all about Hillary, the Femi-Nazis, Vince Foster, and Paula Jones. Scratch the veneer and that is still all you get. Why anyone on the Right would listen to a thrice-divorced drug addict is really beyond me. The guy is a total charlatan.

sturg, I know it's a distinction that is unfortunate and NAZI is the wrong term, but the Right in this country has been as divisive as the Left throughout the nation's history and it continues in that vein. "We have and you don't. Too bad for you." What the Right is largely peddling now is just an updated version of the racial and sexist dog whistles they used a century ago. You need to read more history. I would suggest that to thethe, but I don't think he can read.
 
50PoundHead said:
I don't think we need to call you a kook. What you utter is sufficient to make that patently clear. The Clintons were hardly radical leftists and that is where Limbaugh made his mark. It was all about Hillary, the Femi-Nazis, Vince Foster, and Paula Jones. Scratch the veneer and that is still all you get. Why anyone on the Right would listen to a thrice-divorced drug addict is really beyond me. The guy is a total charlatan.

sturg, I know it's a distinction that is unfortunate and NAZI is the wrong term, but the Right in this country has been as divisive as the Left throughout the nation's history and it continues in that vein. "We have and you don't. Too bad for you." What the Right is largely peddling now is just an updated version of the racial and sexist dog whistles they used a century ago. You need to read more history. I would suggest that to thethe, but I don't think he can read.
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Its easy to attack the person (Limbaugh) when you dont like the message because it reveals truth. I dont even care about him and probably listened to all but 10 hours of his show sonce id rather listen to sports/music/audiobooks while I drive.

But you can pretend that taking guns was a conspiracy. Or that oushing radical ideology in universities was the imagination of the right. Even further that open borders was a fantasy but the left now wants to decriminalize illegal border crossing while defund ICE.

All of these insults will fo nothing because the truth has come out. The left in this country has shown its hand and its what we have been saying for decades.
 
sturg33 said:
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I don’t understand Beto’s appeal one iota. Dude has nothing interesting to say and is a total empty suit.

While I disagree with someone like, say, Yang, at least he has interesting ideas. Beto’s next original thought will be his first.

Speaking of Yang, nice to see someone on the left talking about empowering individuals. Nice contrast to Bernie and Warren, who think they can solve every problem (real or imagined) by enlarging government.
 
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I guess that’s just a matter of perspective. I’d think that a young person graduating college without a mountain of debt or starting a family without worrying about getting a particular job just for the HC benefits would feel pretty darned empowered relative to the status quo. That person would also be more empowered to take the kinds of risks necessary to start a business, etc.
 
From my perspective Warren and Sanders represent a paternalistic and bureaucratic approach to helping people. I dont think it gets much bang for the buck and the approach is often resented by the people they are trying to help.

Wang's approach is more trusting that people will figure out the best way to use those Wang bucks.
 
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I’m ok in principle with some form of UBI—as was Milton Friedman—but if I had to choose one it seems like from a purely rational perspective I can see taking the hedge against being bankrupted by an unforeseen health crisis or nickel-and-dimed to death by a private insurer while managing a chronic disease over a $12K/year stipend.
 
Julio3000 said:
I’m ok in principle with some form of UBI—as was Milton Friedman—but if I had to choose one it seems like from a purely rational perspective I can see taking the hedge against being bankrupted by an unforeseen health crisis or nickel-and-dimed to death by a private insurer while managing a chronic disease over a $12K/year stipend.
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I don’t think Yang is asking people to make that choice though. Isn’t he on the Medicare for all train? Not sure if he outlined how to pay for it, so maybe don’t spend that freedom dividend just yet.
 
He knew his campaign was dead and this was move to become relevant.

It will hurt the Dem chances in 2020 though. The ad plays itself. I know a lot of Trump voters who were gonna sit 2020 out but one texted me the other day saying "they're gonna force me to vote for Trump, arent they?"
 
sturg33 said:
He knew his campaign was dead and this was move to become relevant.

It will hurt the Dem chances in 2020 though. The ad plays itself. I know a lot of Trump voters who were gonna sit 2020 out but one texted me the other day saying "they're gonna force me to vote for Trump, arent they?"
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Im not sure how a moderate could not vote for Trump. He is an idiot but looking past his awful rhetoric and the results are of a successful administration.
 
thethe said:
Its easy to attack the person (Limbaugh) when you dont like the message because it reveals truth. I dont even care about him and probably listened to all but 10 hours of his show sonce id rather listen to sports/music/audiobooks while I drive.

But you can pretend that taking guns was a conspiracy. Or that oushing radical ideology in universities was the imagination of the right. Even further that open borders was a fantasy but the left now wants to decriminalize illegal border crossing while defund ICE.

All of these insults will fo nothing because the truth has come out. The left in this country has shown its hand and its what we have been saying for decades.
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I'm sorry I insulted you. My rhetoric got away from me. You aren't a kook and you can read. I just think you younger guys need to look back at history instead of looking at the past 24 hours in the news cycle.

Let's go back to look at the Democratic nominees for President since Mondale in 1984, who was arguably the last program liberal to bear that standard.

1988--Dukakis was a technocrat
1992/1996--Clinton was a centrist who actually became more moderate--especially economically--throughout his term.
2000--Gore was a centrist (at least then).
2004--Kerry was a centrist.
2008--Obama was marginally to the left of Hillary, who, like her husband is a centrist. But Obama wasn't humming The International under his breath like many on the Right purported he was.
2016--H. Clinton was/is a centrist.

Admittedly things have changed in 2020 at the Presidential level, but if Biden comes through, that will be another centrist. I agree that the Democratic Party has shifted to the left, but the Republicans have shifted equally to the right. As an example, in reaction to the Clinton health care proposal in 1993, the Heritage Foundation came forward with a counterproposal that closely resembled the Obama proposal in 2009. That proposal--embraced as the Republican response to Clinton--was immediately dismissed by the Republicans when suggested by Obama

Neither side is particularly pragmatic right now and both sides have gone off their respective ends on social issues.

I have been reading Frances Fitzgerald's The Evangelicals and one interesting aspect in all of this is that 60 years ago when JFK was running for President, many Protestant denominations, particularly the Southern Baptist Convention, railed against the melding of church and state that would result if a Catholic became President. 60 years later, many of the same folks have no problem with church and state becoming more closely aligned.

As for Limbaugh, he's indignance du jour. The problem with Twitter and blogs and goofball websites is that there is no shortage of material for Limbaugh (and Rachel Maddow on the other extreme) to erupt about. Someone who is barely a biped tweets or posts something totally ridiculous and one side or the other uses said entry to whitewash an entire segment of the voting populace.

The vast majority of the public simply wants government to work. The problem right now is that all of the air is being sucked out of the room by those on the extremes. I guess that is what sells ads and props up viewership/listenership.
 
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50PoundHead said:
I'm sorry I insulted you. My rhetoric got away from me. You aren't a kook and you can read. I just think you younger guys need to look back at history instead of looking at the past 24 hours in the news cycle.

Let's go back to look at the Democratic nominees for President since Mondale in 1984, who was arguably the last program liberal to bear that standard.

1988--Dukakis was a technocrat
1992/1996--Clinton was a centrist who actually became more moderate--especially economically--throughout his term.
2000--Gore was a centrist (at least then).
2004--Kerry was a centrist.
2008--Obama was marginally to the left of Hillary, who, like her husband is a centrist. But Obama wasn't humming The International under his breath like many on the Right purported he was.
2016--H. Clinton was/is a centrist.

Admittedly things have changed in 2020 at the Presidential level, but if Biden comes through, that will be another centrist. I agree that the Democratic Party has shifted to the left, but the Republicans have shifted equally to the right. As an example, in reaction to the Clinton health care proposal in 1993, the Heritage Foundation came forward with a counterproposal that closely resembled the Obama proposal in 2009. That proposal--embraced as the Republican response to Clinton--was immediately dismissed by the Republicans when suggested by Obama

Neither side is particularly pragmatic right now and both sides have gone off their respective ends on social issues.

I have been reading Frances Fitzgerald's The Evangelicals and one interesting aspect in all of this is that 60 years ago when JFK was running for President, many Protestant denominations, particularly the Southern Baptist Convention, railed against the melding of church and state that would result if a Catholic became President. 60 years later, many of the same folks have no problem with church and state becoming more closely aligned.

As for Limbaugh, he's indignance du jour. The problem with Twitter and blogs and goofball websites is that there is no shortage of material for Limbaugh (and Rachel Maddow on the other extreme) to erupt about. Someone who is barely a biped tweets or posts something totally ridiculous and one side or the other uses said entry to whitewash an entire segment of the voting populace.

The vast majority of the public simply wants government to work. The problem right now is that all of the air is being sucked out of the room by those on the extremes. I guess that is what sells ads and props up viewership/listenership.
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For starters I appreciate your apology but its not necessary.

I simply disagree with the idea the left has shifted as much as the right when the left is talking about taking away law abiding citizens guns, aborting babies even after birth, providing free healthcare to the billions of people around the world if they make it illegally into this country as well as decriminalizing illegal border crossings. Most of these policies are endorsed by the 'centrist' Biden. But lets be honest with ourselves here...there is no way Biden is going to be the nominee. The guy needs to be in a senior home before the white house and as we get close to the primaries the other candidates will eat him alive. What will that result in? The Democrats are going to nominate a radical left wing ideologue because that is where the party is. Not sure how that can be denied. The question will be for the 2020 election is what do the moderates in both parties do. I think they will be scared off by the socialist proposals and hand Trump an easy election win.

Democrats used to fight for blue collar workers who wages were being undercut by cheap labor but apparently that doesn't mean anything anymore.

I don't know too much about the Republican response to the health care debates in the early 90's but you are a straight shooter so I fully believe you.
 
"Yeah, I was there [on the selfie line] four hours, but I'll tell you what: so was the last guy in line."
-Senator Elizabeth Warren
 
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