4/26/15 MINORS FINAL: Grim news from Rome

Also nothing worse than continually trading your best players once they cost any money. Offer Wood a similar deal to Teheran. Even if you pay a little more, he's worth it.

If the Braves are even considering trading Wood, then I will lose faith in the organization completely. That, or they better be targeting Jose Abreu.
 
smootness said:
Also nothing worse than continually trading your best players once they cost any money. Offer Wood a similar deal to Teheran. Even if you pay a little more, he's worth it.

If the Braves are even considering trading Wood, then I will lose faith in the organization completely. That, or they better be targeting Jose Abreu.
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Thats the point though right? Getting a guy like Abreu is going ot cost you a pitcher like Wood. If you have faith in your scouts and developmental team then you pull the trigger on a deal like that.

Abreu is not a great example only becuase he can only play 1B or DH. But, a hitter similar to that for LF would be nice.
 
We're not getting Abreu for Wood. That's my point.

If Abreu was on the table, I'm certainly not letting his position deter me. It would be bye bye, Freeman...trade him for a pitcher at that point.
 
I agree with trying to lock-up Wood before he gets more expensive, I don't agree with what thethe is pushing as far as trading him at all.
 
I'm not "pushing" to trade Wood. I'm saying I wouldn't put him on an untouchable list if the right player came around.
 
thethe said:
I'm not "pushing" to trade Wood. I'm saying I wouldn't put him on an untouchable list if the right player came around.
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I just don't think, no matter who we trade, we're going to get an elite bat. You have to develop those guys or sign them as FAs. Since we won't be signing them, we need to develop them. That's why I'm in favor of drafting an even mix of hitting and pitching.

We need our top guys to come from our farm system and only use trades and FA to supplement the roster. For 2017, I don't see us fielding a great lineup no matter what. So focus on putting together a great rotation, hope a couple guys (Peraza, Mallex Smith, Ruiz) come along, and perhaps trade for some decent bats in LF, 3B, or C.
 
Keep in mind that the guy you seem to believe could be (or would have to be) a TOR guy for us is the same guy who the Cardinals believed they had several guys better than. They had their ace in Wainwright, great young options in Wacha and Martinez, and still have good pitching talent in the system. They didn't go trade one of their top pitchers,

You don't do that unless you're about to lose them. We're not about to lose Wood and shouldn't any time soon if we're smart.
 
I've always thought the area you risk a big long-term contract is with young homegrown hitters. Like we did with Freeman and Simmons. Those are the two best long-term deaks we've seen in a while.
 
smootness said:
Keep in mind that the guy you seem to believe could be (or would have to be) a TOR guy for us is the same guy who the Cardinals believed they had several guys better than. They had their ace in Wainwright, great young options in Wacha and Martinez, and still have good pitching talent in the system. They didn't go trade one of their top pitchers,

You don't do that unless you're about to lose them. We're not about to lose Wood and shouldn't any time soon if we're smart.
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I think Cardinals smartly traded from a surplus to fill a clear need. They are banking on Heyward loving it in St. Louis and signing long term. I think the Braves will do something similar in a year or two.
 
nsacpi said:
I've always thought the area you risk a big long-term contract is with young homegrown hitters. Like we did with Freeman and Simmons. Those are the two best long-term deaks we've seen in a while.
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I agree with that mostly, but if you can lock up pitchers like Teheran and Wood to deals like we made with Teheran. Then that makes sense to do too, I wouldn't do it with many though. However, I would with the Teheran, Wood and Kimbrel types. I wanted to lock up Kimbrel long term after his rookie year. What a huge bargain that could've been too but I know that is outside the box thinking.
 
Braves1976 said:
I agree with that mostly, but if you can lock up pitchers like Teheran and Wood to deals like we made with Teheran. Then that makes sense to do too, I wouldn't do it with many though. However, I would with the Teheran, Wood and Kimbrel types. I wanted to lock up Kimbrel long term after his rookie year. What a huge bargain that could've been too but I know that is outside the box thinking.
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I think the more pitchers you lock up the more you are just testing fate. Its like playing Russian roulette. The percentage chance is so much higher for pitchers that you will have a season+ injury that eventually its oging to happen with the guys you lock up. I'd rather just spend that money on hitting and just have faith in the minor league system.
 
thethe said:
I think Cardinals smartly traded from a surplus to fill a clear need. They are banking on Heyward loving it in St. Louis and signing long term. I think the Braves will do something similar in a year or two.
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But the Cardinals traded from the bottom of their surplus. We would be trading from the top.

They kept their highest-ceiling guys and traded a guy most people view as a 3 or 4. You are advocating trading perhaps our highest-ceiling guy and hoping the same 3 or 4 becomes a high-ceiling guy.
 
The guys I want to lock up are the guys with the most potential...that is Teheran, Wood, and, if he comes along, Folty.

You lock those guys up and keep the revolving door going at the back...the Millers, Wislers, etc. By the time you develop another high-end guy, it will probably be time for a guy like Teheran to get a massive deal as he nears 30. That's when you may let him go.

You don't build a consistent winner by never keeping your best pitchers around.
 
thethe said:
I think the more pitchers you lock up the more you are just testing fate. Its like playing Russian roulette. The percentage chance is so much higher for pitchers that you will have a season+ injury that eventually its oging to happen with the guys you lock up. I'd rather just spend that money on hitting and just have faith in the minor league system.
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I don't put a number on it so much as I go against what I'd do mostly when a pitcher is so good or special that he warrants doing so.
 
smootness said:
But the Cardinals traded from the bottom of their surplus. We would be trading from the top.

They kept their highest-ceiling guys and traded a guy most people view as a 3 or 4. You are advocating trading perhaps our highest-ceiling guy and hoping the same 3 or 4 becomes a high-ceiling guy.
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Well I wouldn't want to trade for a player that is entering the final year of his deal. Then I certainly wouldn't give up Alex Wood. Thats the reason we couldn't get Wacha for Heyward.
 
Braves1976 said:
I agree with that mostly, but if you can lock up pitchers like Teheran and Wood to deals like we made with Teheran. Then that makes sense to do too, I wouldn't do it with many though. However, I would with the Teheran, Wood and Kimbrel types. I wanted to lock up Kimbrel long term after his rookie year. What a huge bargain that could've been too but I know that is outside the box thinking.
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The Teheran deal carries more risk than I consider necessary. Before he got hurt everyone wanted something like that for Beachy.

There are always tradeoffs. Are we better off with Teheran long-term than Justin Upton or Heyward, even at a higher price. Would signing Wood long-term mean less chance of holding on to the next wave of young hitters like Peraza.

Generally, I would take my chances on young homegrown hitters.
 
nsacpi said:
The Teheran deal carries more risk than I consider necessary. Before he got hurt everyone wanted something like that for Beachy.

There are always tradeoffs. Are we better off with Teheran long-term than Justin Upton or Heyward, even at a higher price. Would signing Wood long-term mean less chance of holding on to the next wave of young hitters like Peraza.

Generally, I would take my chances on young homegrown hitters.
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I agree with you generally, but the Teheran deal was too good to pass up IMO. So if you can do that again with Wood, I'd do it. But if he asks for too much money and years, that's another story.

That said, I don't like not being careful with Teheran and pushing him after he hurt his knee. He has been bad since and if that turns into something bad it just makes me want Fredi fired more but wouldn't change my mind about the deal.
 
smootness said:
Miller won't be a TOR guy. Or at least he has far less chance of becoming that than Wood.

Wood, Teheran, and Miller is a great start to a rotation. If Folty comes along, that is a potentially great 1-4. But I would consider Miller the 4.

If you take Wood out, then Teheran and Miller is much less formidable as the known quantities. You would have to have Folty, Wisler, and somebody else all hit or else now you have only a good rotation instead of a great one.

I mean, adding Banuelos, Sims, or Perez suddenly gives you that guy plus Miller and Wisler as guys that are really 3s or lower and only Teheran and Folty (and only if he realizes all his potential) as top 2 guys.

Give me a 1, two 2s and two 3s (or at least three 2s and three 3s) over two 2s, two 3s, and a 4 or 5 all day.
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TOR is a nebulous term to me. I think Miller has the opportunity to be very, very good. He's a work-in-progress to some extent, but his GB/FB has improved thus far this season (I don't know if McDowell is changing his approach or not and it is a small sample) and if that continues, I think his ceiling rises.

I like our top three moving ahead, provided they stay healthy.
 
Locking up Wood is scary. His motion is a red flag. He's had one TJ already...so if he goes that route he's a two timer TJ.

I'd trade Wood in a heart beat if I got a similar position player (non 1B or SS).
 
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