5/13/15 Braves @ Reds

chop2chip said:
I don't buy this one iota. If his purpose is to just complete innings, then I'm not impressed. There are relatively few pitchers that couldn't pitch 40 innings over 8 starts with an era of 6. He didn't serve any real function.

Cutting Wandy in favor of him was a mistake. An understandable mistake, but a mistake nevertheless.

Besides, I doubt the three John's anticipated having both Folty and Potentially Wisler in the rotation in mid May.
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Oh, I'd have kept Wandy as well. No doubt about that whatsoever. The only problem with Wandy is if he makes three starts and goes down with an injury, then our hand is forced a bit more.

He is our Livan Hernandez at this point. Just don't get us blown out option to postpone arby clocks. I completely buy that's the idea here.
 
thethe said:
Again, Braves decided on Stults because of his health track record. It has been discussed numerous times. Wang is getting shelled at AAA...he would be even worse than Stults in the majors and probably couldn't last more than 2 innings a start. Its not pretty watching Stults out there but for the long term health of the organization its a positive. However, you are going to turn everything into an absolute negative for the organization (aside from the universally praised Kimbrel deal) while I will look at things in a positive light. I'm ok with that.
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It looks like there's a really strong chance Wandy pitches a lot more innings this year than Stults. Health is important, but so is effectiveness.
 
thethe said:
Again, Braves decided on Stults because of his health track record. It has been discussed numerous times. Wang is getting shelled at AAA...he would be even worse than Stults in the majors and probably couldn't last more than 2 innings a start. Its not pretty watching Stults out there but for the long term health of the organization its a positive. However, you are going to turn everything into an absolute negative for the organization (aside from the universally praised Kimbrel deal) while I will look at things in a positive light. I'm ok with that.
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There is absolutely no doubt that the Braves made a mistake, and a stupid one IMO, on Wandy. He should be in the rotation. Stults could actually be good in the bullpen though.
 
chop2chip said:
It looks like there's a really strong chance Wandy pitches a lot more innings this year than Stults. Health is important, but so is effectiveness.
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Yes, if you could have guarnteed me that Wandy was going to be healthy then you take Wandy every day of the week over Stults. But I can't assess whether the decision was right or not based on the results.
 
Tapate50 said:
Oh, I'd have kept Wandy as well. No doubt about that whatsoever. The only problem with Wandy is if he makes three starts and goes down with an injury, then our hand is forced a bit more.

He is our Livan Hernandez at this point. Just don't get us blown out option to postpone arby clocks. I completely buy that's the idea here.
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That's fair. Though it's not as if this is some sort of 20/20 hindsight jargon, Stults struggling like this was fairly predictable.

I was as wrong as anybody, but it looks like the real mistake was letting Harang walk.
 
UNCBlue012 said:
There is absolutely no doubt that the Braves made a mistake, and a stupid one IMO, on Wandy. He should be in the rotation. Stults could actually be good in the bullpen though.
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I agree, but its not like its a huge one. They may have known they were taking the more reliable, lower ceiling player and been ok with that. My position on it is that it isn't really a decision worth bringing up all the time because in the end it doesn't really matter.
 
thethe said:
Yes, if you could have guarnteed me that Wandy was going to be healthy then you take Wandy every day of the week over Stults. But I can't assess whether the decision was right or not based on the results.
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Again this isn't result based analysis. Stults was expected to be awful and this is what awful looks like. Wandy never had to give us 200 innings, meanwhile Stults isn't going to make it through May. Is Stults being removed from the rotation any less surprising than Wandy getting hurt?
 
Tapate50 said:
I agree, but its not like its a huge one. They may have known they were taking the more reliable, lower ceiling player and been ok with that. My position on it is that it isn't really a decision worth bringing up all the time because in the end it doesn't really matter.
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This decision alone doesn't matter, but if they push Wisler to the roto and he isn't ready than it might matter. Hopefully they put Perez in before him.
 
chop2chip said:
Again this isn't result based analysis. Stults was expected to be awful and this is what awful looks like. Wandy never had to give us 200 innings, meanwhile Stults isn't going to make it through May. Is Stults being removed from the rotation any less surprising than Wandy getting hurt?
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But Wandy giving us even 50 innings was in debate because you never know when a pitcher is going to get hurt...especially one with a recent terrible injury history.

The decision for Stults had nothing to do with effectiveness IMO.
 
chop2chip said:
This decision alone doesn't matter, but if they push Wisler to the roto and he isn't ready than it might matter. Hopefully they put Perez in before him.
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He or Cahill may get first shot to drop the ball. I don't really think either sticks. ManBan isn't supposed to take on a full workload this year, so I am not sure if they would pull him up just to shut him down midway down the stretch if he is rolling.
 
I wouldn't call up Banuelos this year. Let him log his innings in a controlled environment. Then let him win a spot in the rotation next year.

I'd trade Alex Wood for a big time bat and then run a rotation of Teheran/Miller/Folty/Wisler/Banuelos.

Let them take their lumps in 2016 and get ready to roll in 2017.
 
thethe said:
I'd trade Alex Wood for a big time bat and then run a rotation of Teheran/Miller/Folty/Wisler/Banuelos.
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Boston has a major need for quality arms right now. I'd be easily tempted to move Wood OR Teheran if it would net the Braves a package like Mookie Betts + JBJ + ...
 
Hawk said:
Boston has a major need for quality arms right now. I'd be easily tempted to move Wood OR Teheran if it would net the Braves a package like Mookie Betts + JBJ + ...
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I don't want to trade Teheran personally. I don't care that he is struggling now. This is a kid they have instructed since he was 16 and he grown in the developmental system.

Sign me up right now for Wood for Betts/JBJ/lower level high ceiling prospect.
 
Hawk said:
Boston has a major need for quality arms right now. I'd be easily tempted to move Wood OR Teheran if it would net the Braves a package like Mookie Betts + JBJ + ...
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Boston wouldn't trade Betts for Hamels. And Wood ain't no Hamels
 
thethe said:
I don't want to trade Teheran personally. I don't care that he is struggling now. This is a kid they have instructed since he was 16 and he grown in the developmental system.

Sign me up right now for Wood for Betts/JBJ/lower level high ceiling prospect.
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I've never really been completely in awe of Teheran. Great pitcher, but I feel like if you can sell him as an ace (bundled with extremely reasonable cost control through 2020) you would be remiss not to explore the potential return.
 
thethe said:
Yes, if you could have guarnteed me that Wandy was going to be healthy then you take Wandy every day of the week over Stults. But I can't assess whether the decision was right or not based on the results.
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If there was any way to guarantee that either Wandy or Stults would be healthy, please share it and email the Braves organization as well because no one has figured out when and why pitchers go down.
 
Hawk said:
I've never really been completely in awe of Teheran. Great pitcher, but I feel like if you can sell him as an ace (bundled with extremely reasonable cost control through 2020) you would be remiss not to explore the potential return.
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I would trade Teheran today if I could get a top 20 prospect bat. I think people have this perception that he's a budding ace based on his low ERA last year. He's now 24 and at 74 starts in his career with a 3.83 FIP and 3.85 xFIP (3.29 ERA). Unless you believe he has an ability to outpitch his peripherals, then why not trade him if another team views him as a 24 year old future ace? Here is a fangraphs fantasy article on him from a couple weeks back:

I see two possibilities here. One explanation is that he is injured. He isn’t controlling his pitches, he is losing his velocity, and the next step is word of an arm injury. That’s a possibility, but I see no reports of pain, discomfort or anything else. If he is hurt, it is not public knowledge. And I talked to Jeff Zimmerman, our resident expert on potentially injured pitchers, and he is not ready to put Teheran on his warning list. He had a big drop in velocity in his previous start (before last night), but it bounced back. If the velocity stays down 2-3 straight games, he’ll be concerned.

The other is that his inability to get ahead of batters is allowing them to sit on pitches, and get a better read. They can sit dead red, ignore the off-speed stuff (since he can’t get strikes with it anyway). And when “dead red” means a 90 mph fastball, big league hitters are going to tee off in a big way – like 2 HR/9 IP big.

In either case, Julio Teheran is basically unusable right now. Until he is able to get those off-speed pitches into the strike zone, he’s going to continue to walk everyone and the guys he doesn’t walk will continue to hit the ball really, really hard. Until you see the walks come down (and more specifically, the off-speed pitches hitting the zone) I’d keep him riding the pine.

I might even look to sell low.

On the other hand is a pitcher that seems to be relatively overlooked in Wood, who has 42 starts (same age) and 3.05 FIP and 3.28 xFIP. (3.08 ERA) This is a kid that I think actually is a budding ace (though as 50 mentioned, he does labor through starts at times). I don't think you get as much for Wood as you do for Teheran based on past prospect rankings.

I would take a shot at Wood/Miller with Folty and/or Wisler and a vet or 2 and give it a go considering the added prospect bat obtained for Teheran. The club is no where in terms of future hitting prospects at the major league/high levels right now. It's Freeman/Simmons with question marks in Peterson/Bethancourt.
 
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