5/17/15 Braves @ Marlins

sturg33 said:
Great game by Shelby!

Still we wish we had a similar offseason but held on to Justin. Adding him in the lineup I think would have made us legit contenders for playoffs. But maybe I'm getting ahead of myself
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I actually agree with this. I was always a fan of the Heyward trade (putting aside my fandom of Heyward), but I wasn't keen on the return for Justin Upton. I do like Jace, but I felt like we had middle infield options who could have provided more offensively in combination with Justin (not saying any one of them could have outhit Jace this year- although Peraza could have). That said, we're where we are and I'm now as big a fan of Jace as any.
 
We will see....at the time I thought the JUp trade was going to come down to Freid. He had to be a controllable big league starter who'd we want to extend to make it a good trade.

SSS but it looks like we could have gotten our CF for the future in that trade. And Peterson was raking at Carolina......playing LF instead of 3B and it's only A ball, but still. If we get two long term position players plus Jave for a year of JUp, that is pretty good.
 
Russ2dollas said:
We will see....at the time I thought the JUp trade was going to come down to Freid. He had to be a controllable big league starter who'd we want to extend to make it a good trade.

SSS but it looks like we could have gotten our CF for the future in that trade. And Peterson was raking at Carolina......playing LF instead of 3B and it's only A ball, but still. If we get two long term position players plus Jave for a year of JUp, that is pretty good.
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I still think that if we got Upton to resign for 5-7 years that would have been a perfect fit.
 
sturg33 said:
Great game by Shelby!

Still we wish we had a similar offseason but held on to Justin. Adding him in the lineup I think would have made us legit contenders for playoffs. But maybe I'm getting ahead of myself
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Justin in this lineup would give us a pretty nice shot IMO. I am no unhappy with what we did mind you, but I can't disagree that we wouldn't be more competitive.
 
Russ2dollas said:
We will see....at the time I thought the JUp trade was going to come down to Freid. He had to be a controllable big league starter who'd we want to extend to make it a good trade.

SSS but it looks like we could have gotten our CF for the future in that trade. And Peterson was raking at Carolina......playing LF instead of 3B and it's only A ball, but still. If we get two long term position players plus Jave for a year of JUp, that is pretty good.
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I think it still does come down to Fried. Either one of the other kids could do enough to change the equation, but it's too early to bank that.
 
I still wouldn't have signed Markakis - but let's assume that had to happen. We do everything exactly the same except for two trade - the Upton trade, and the Carpentar/Shreve trade - and I actually would like our shot as a dark horse:

1. Maybin CF

2. Markakis RF

3. Upton LF

4. Freeman 1B

5. KJ/CJ 3B

6. Simmons SS

7. KJ/Callaspo 2B

8. Bethancourt/AJ C

Rotation:

1. Teheran

2. Wood

3. Miller

4. Folty

5. Perez

Bullpen:

Grilli

Johnson

Carpentar

Shreve

Martin

etc.

Would feel much better about the lineup and bullpen. And we would have cleared the money to sign JUp
 
sturg33 said:
Well what is point of talking to you if you're entire premise is "we could not sign him, period."

I mean, if we can't sign him, who can we sign?
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That is why I think its more important for a team like the Braves to develop players as opposed to trying to sign guys in their late 20's.

I never said we could not sign him but to go into the contract year is a dangerous proposition for a team lik ehte Braves.
 
Julio3000 said:
I think it still does come down to Fried. Either one of the other kids could do enough to change the equation, but it's too early to bank that.
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Too early to know if Freid will pitch again either.

My point is that I think there is hope that we could get a good regular out of Smith or Peterson. 6 years of a good regular is a good return for 1 year of JUp IMO. If Smith can be a micheal bourn type CF, then we got a nice return. I thought Peterson was really going to shoot up the rankings before his bus injury.
 
Can we all sit and marvel at the dumpster fire that is the Marlins organization? Demoting their GM to manager? Especially one who doesn't have any managing experience and not really much playing experience either? Not saying he's devoid of baseball knowledge by any stretch, but I highly doubt he'll hold the respect of the players.
 
thethe said:
That is why I think its more important for a team like the Braves to develop players as opposed to trying to sign guys in their late 20's.

I never said we could not sign him but to go into the contract year is a dangerous proposition for a team lik ehte Braves.
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I'd love to see a study of FA signings. I think if you look for signings >3 years that 75% don't work out and 50% are a disaster.

We cannot keep multiple guys that want top dollar. Studs are now making 20+ million per year. We can't have 2 guys eating up 40% of the payroll.

I think we need to develop guys. We need to extend guys to get them a reasonable rate. We need to trade.

I think the Braves should be out on FA. Sign 1-2 year deals to fill in holes. Unless someone offers some amazing deal or incentive based contract, just say no to big FA.
 
thethe said:
That is why I think its more important for a team like the Braves to develop players as opposed to trying to sign guys in their late 20's.

I never said we could not sign him but to go into the contract year is a dangerous proposition for a team lik ehte Braves.
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If you don't sign guys to 2nd contracts, you are missing out on their prime and you will never be a team that is competitive year in and year out. You cannot win consistently with only guys in their first 6 or last 3-4 years of their baseball careers.
 
Russ2dollas said:
I'd love to see a study of FA signings. I think if you look for signings >3 years that 75% don't work out and 50% are a disaster.

We cannot keep multiple guys that want top dollar. Studs are now making 20+ million per year. We can't have 2 guys eating up 40% of the payroll.

I think we need to develop guys. We need to extend guys to get them a reasonable rate. We need to trade.

I think the Braves should be out on FA. Sign 1-2 year deals to fill in holes. Unless someone offers some amazing deal or incentive based contract, just say no to big FA.
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Given that we are now in the bottom half of teams in terms of payroll, I agree. We need to be careful in identifying the homegrown players we want to keep and give them deals similar to the ones we gave Freeman, Simmons, Kimbrel and Teheran. Even those kinds of deals don't always work out, but they are better than the ones you see for players who hit the free agent market. Then you complement those young players with veteran leaders like AJ, Gomes, Laird, KJ, Hinske, Diaz, Ross. That's the formula we have to follow.
 
gilesfan said:
If you don't sign guys to 2nd contracts, you are missing out on their prime and you will never be a team that is competitive year in and year out. You cannot win consistently with only guys in their first 6 or last 3-4 years of their baseball careers.
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The idea is to extend arby players a year or 2 into FA like they did with Freeman and Simmons.
 
Just want to echo the points that Russ made. FA contracts are a disaster waiting to happen.
 
Russ2dollas said:
I'd love to see a study of FA signings. I think if you look for signings >3 years that 75% don't work out and 50% are a disaster.

We cannot keep multiple guys that want top dollar. Studs are now making 20+ million per year. We can't have 2 guys eating up 40% of the payroll.

I think we need to develop guys. We need to extend guys to get them a reasonable rate. We need to trade.

I think the Braves should be out on FA. Sign 1-2 year deals to fill in holes. Unless someone offers some amazing deal or incentive based contract, just say no to big FA.
Click to expand...

I would be very surprised if the numbers were that high. People always forget about the successful free agent acquisitions.
 
gilesfan said:
I would be very surprised if the numbers were that high. People always forget about the successful free agent acquisitions.
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Correct. Free Agents are rarely value contracts. Because you're buying them at or above market value. You have some dumpster fires (Upton, Hamilton) and some overpays (Pujols and Fielder) but if you want to be competitive you need to have guys through their prime.

Also it's important to sign the right free agents. Certain positions age faster, certain hitters age worse, and so on so forth.
 
gilesfan said:
I would be very surprised if the numbers were that high. People always forget about the successful free agent acquisitions.
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possibly. That is why we all love data.

You also have to define "success" and failure....b/c those are probably very different. And when are you judging....for example if the going rate for FA WAR is 7 million now, at the end of a Heyward type deal it might be 12 million. So what criteria do you use.

I think we'd have a hard time going back and finding FA deals (where a guy switched teams) that have worked out for the club. Can you do a top 10 list?

Most teams should try to get them young and extend them to age 30.
 
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