5/8 at rays

thewupk said:
1) Find me a season where 7+ WAR is not going to be MVP level. Please.
2) Simmons, like the rest of the guys you mentioned, are having MVP level production so far. That is a fact. Also a fact is that if Simmons ever produces a good year offensively he will be an MVP candidate. Getting MVP votes for merely being league average proves this.

Regarding Simmons being lucky this year. Sure but not as much as you'd expect. He has an xWOBA of 363 compared to his WOBA of 385. MVP level.
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1). Potentially this one. If multiple guys in the same league put up 10+ WAR, like is the current pace. that, objectively, would make a 7-WAR player not most valuable. But again, a month and half into the season, it's pretty silly to call anyone (except the obvious, trout) that.
Point number 2 goes with my "it's way too early" point. simmons getting MVP votes last year means nothing. he was 8th in the AL in WAR.

we all know why you're saying it. it's ok.
 
Super said:
1). Potentially this one. If multiple guys in the same league put up 10+ WAR, like is the current pace. that, objectively, would make a 7-WAR player not most valuable. But again, a month and half into the season, it's pretty silly to call anyone (except the obvious, trout) that.
Point number 2 goes with my "it's way too early" point. simmons getting MVP votes last year means nothing. he was 8th in the AL in WAR.

we all know why you're saying it. it's ok.
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Know how to tell you lost an argument?

You resort to desperately arguing semantics.
 
Super said:
i agree totally. which is why wupk lost a while ago.
or when you resort to personal insults. which would mean you lose a lot of arguments.
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Yup, you caught me...I'm always wrong.

Notice how about 6 people have pointed out that you're wrong in this thread?
 
Super said:
1). Potentially this one. If multiple guys in the same league put up 10+ WAR, like is the current pace. that, objectively, would make a 7-WAR player not most valuable. But again, a month and half into the season, it's pretty silly to call anyone (except the obvious, trout) that.
Point number 2 goes with my "it's way too early" point. simmons getting MVP votes last year means nothing. he was 8th in the AL in WAR.

we all know why you're saying it. it's ok.
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1) Sure but this has literally never happened so just a strawman argument
2) There is a difference between calling someone a MVP candidate and saying they currently have MVP level production. Try and keep up.
 
Enscheff said:
Yup, you caught me...I'm always wrong.

Notice how about 6 people have pointed out that you're wrong in this thread?
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To be fair, more than 6 have pointed out you are a douche 95% of the time. It doesn't stop you, and I have no problem with it. Super shouldn't change his position either just bc others disagree
 
msstate7 said:
To be fair, more than 6 have pointed out you are a douche 95% of the time. It doesn't stop you, and I have no problem with it. Super shouldn't change his position either just bc others disagree
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Super is wrong, period. That singular reason is why he should change his position.

And you owe my charity $25 because you were also wrong. Please take care of it. Thanks.
 
Enscheff said:
Super is wrong, period. That singular reason is why he should change his position.

And you owe my charity $25 because you were also wrong. Please take care of it. Thanks.
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explain how i'm wrong.
explain how my position that saying a guy has "MVP-caliber production" a month and half into the season (while being lucky) is silly, is wrong.
explain how, if a guy puts up 7 WAR it's considered MVP-caliber if other guys put up 10+. that is literally, objectively not the same level, therefore not MVP-level. unless 7 WAR is equally as valuable as 10. i kinda think it isn't.
 
thewupk said:
1) Sure but this has literally never happened so just a strawman argument
2) There is a difference between calling someone a MVP candidate and saying they currently have MVP level production. Try and keep up.
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How is that a straw man..? At all? You asked in what season that would be true. Bringing out the current WAR leaders numbers to a full season, it would be true this season. Which is my point. It's early. The numbers aren't likely to keep up this pace. Including Simmons. "Literally never happened" is also kind of my point here. Simmons has never put up 7+ WAR. He's never hit nearly this well. He's never carried a BABIP over .300 in a full seaon. He's at .348. There are 7 players in his league who have been more valuable than he has this year, even with his fortunate offense. All facts.
 
I assumed MVP simply meant "most valuable." If 7 guys have been more valuable than another guy (some by a lot), how is that one guy's production possibly considered most valuable?
 
Super said:
I assumed MVP simply meant "most valuable." If 7 guys have been more valuable than another guy (some by a lot), how is that one guy's production possibly considered most valuable?
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You are judging the final results. Not the projection. It is silly to project several guys over 10 war when that hasn’t happened. It is less silly to say a guy with 7 war will get several votes for MVP since that is the norm.
 
Super said:
How is that a straw man..? At all? You asked in what season that would be true. Bringing out the current WAR leaders numbers to a full season, it would be true this season. Which is my point. It's early. The numbers aren't likely to keep up this pace. Including Simmons. "Literally never happened" is also kind of my point here. Simmons has never put up 7+ WAR. He's never hit nearly this well. He's never carried a BABIP over .300 in a full seaon. He's at .348. There are 7 players in his league who have been more valuable than he has this year, even with his fortunate offense. All facts.
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I did and the answer is 0.

It is early and nobody is bringing up anyone sustaining it except for you.

Those all are facts regarding Simmons and yet has nothing to do with the original discussion until you got butt hurt that Simmons is playing "extremely well". Would that phrase, instead of MVP level, not hurt your feelings as much?

Super said:
I assumed MVP simply meant "most valuable." If 7 guys have been more valuable than another guy (some by a lot), how is that one guy's production possibly considered most valuable?
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Then you assumed wrong. There are clear levels of WAR production which is based on the overall performance of the league. 2 WAR = average, 4 WAR = all-star, 6+ = MVP.

Having Trout, Steroids Bonds, and 26 Year Old Pujols in the same league wouldn't make Simmons or anyone else at 7 WAR not have MVP level production even if they wouldn't sniff the award.
 
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