7/24 SUNNNY SUNDAY MINORS THREAD: What Night Saturday was!

zbhargrove said:
You just refuse to admit that a guy who was a second rounder and is playing against mostly older competition and has a .800 OPS can be a good MLB player. Dude's having a breakout at 21 in AA and you give him no chance. That's really strange. I think you need to look at his stats this year and his progression a little closer.

.296/.357/.446/.803, 8 Homers, 68 RBIS, 29 Doubles, 32 Walks, 66 Strikeouts, .150 ISO

If you can't see upside in those numbers for a 21 year old in AA, I can't help you.
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My man DP sporting a .450 avg over his last 10. :HeywardWut:
 
auyushu said:
Producing almost 2 WAR a season for his first 6 seasons isn't a good MLB player? The hyperbole in this thread is getting kinda ridiculous.
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I'm just basing it off the language he used... "average"... I think Peterson has the potential easily be an above average player.
 
striker42 said:
Yeah, it really seems like his mechanics get all out of whack and he loses his release point at times. When that happens he ends up walking everyone and giving up the big inning. When he's repeating his delivery well he's virtually unhittable.

It reminds me of a young Craig Kimbrel. When Kimbrel came up he would either have his mechanics in sync and overpower you or they would be off, he wouldn't be able to find a consistent release point, and he would miss by feet.

This is the most fixable cause of control issues. A lot of times it just takes reps. Newcomb was a cold weather pitcher and two sport athlete. It's not surprising he'd need refining with his mechanics. I just hope the lightbulb eventually comes on.
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I don't know if you've seen him pitch, or making assumptions... but the scouting reports I've read says his mechanics are basically perfect, and is not an obvious opportunity to improve.
 
sturg33 said:
I don't know if you've seen him pitch, or making assumptions... but the scouting reports I've read says his mechanics are basically perfect, and is not an obvious opportunity to improve.
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I think that's kind of his point... his mechanics are great usually... but it seems like one inning a game they just all the sudden go out of whack briefly.
 
zbhargrove said:
I'm just basing it off the language he used... "average"... I think Peterson has the potential easily be an above average player.
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He put the over/under at 11.5 WAR over 6 seasons, that means he thinks he will be a just under 2 WAR a year player on average. And that is an average to slightly above average player. The point he has been making, and that I have agreed with, is that a 2 WAR player in LF combined with Mallex and Inciarte isn't going to really improve our offense much. And we need a huge jolt offensively since we are the worst offense in baseball and it's not even close.

Now hopefully he keeps improving and becomes a 3 WAR guy with low .800ish OPS in the majors, that would be really nice to see. But at this moment in time I don't think anyone could consider that the likely outcome, even if it's possible.
 
zbhargrove said:
I'm just basing it off the language he used... "average"... I think Peterson has the potential easily be an above average player.
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2 WAR per season is the very definition of "average". It is literally in the official explanation of WAR. You think he will be better than that. I think he will be worse, so I offered to make a friendly wager.

Nothing I have read or seen tells me he has "the potential easily be an above average player". That is a 3+ WAR player. Swanson has the ability to be a 3+ WAR player. Albies has the tools for 4+ WAR. Dustin Peterson has the tools of a below average player who probably ends up as a bench bat or starter on a bad team (a role 40 player).

I fail to see how pegging a guy to be an average MLB player is bashing him. Further, I fail to see why it makes you so upset.
 
Enscheff said:
2 WAR per season is the very definition of "average". It is literally in the official explanation of WAR. You think he will be better than that. I think he will be worse, so I offered to make a friendly wager.

Nothing I have read or seen tells me he has "the potential easily be an above average player". That is a 3+ WAR player. Swanson has the ability to be a 3+ WAR player. Albies has the tools for 4+ WAR. Dustin Peterson has the tools of a below average player who probably ends up as a bench bat or starter on a bad team (a role 40 player).

I fail to see how pegging a guy to be an average MLB player is bashing him. Further, I fail to see why it makes you so upset.
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This is not a knock on Swanson because I'm a big fan of his too... but these guys are playing at the same level and Peterson is younger.

Peterson wRC+ .131
Swanson wRC+ .118

This would put Peterson somewhere in between the categories of above average and great

As a second round pick, I think Peterson has better tools than you're giving him credit for. Its just taken him a while to start getting it.
 
zbhargrove said:
This is not a knock on Swanson because I'm a big fan of his too... but these guys are playing at the same level and Peterson is younger.

Peterson wRC+ .131
Swanson wRC+ .118

This would put Peterson somewhere in between the categories of above average and great

As a second round pick, I think Peterson has better tools than you're giving him credit for. Its just taken him a while to start getting it.
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Yup.
 
zbhargrove said:
This is not a knock on Swanson because I'm a big fan of his too... but these guys are playing at the same level and Peterson is younger.

Peterson wRC+ .131
Swanson wRC+ .118

This would put Peterson somewhere in between the categories of above average and great

As a second round pick, I think Peterson has better tools than you're giving him credit for. Its just taken him a while to start getting it.
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One plays SS and one plays LF. I'm not sure why I would need to explain how "tools" encompasses more than the ability to hit. If you seriously think Swanson and Peterson have the same upside in terms of WAR, I don't really know what to say.

And Swanson is looking more like a 2-3 WAR player (as opposed to the star we thought he was going to be), so comparing the offensive output of a LFer to a good-not-great SS is a little silly.

It's fine, keep dreaming on Peterson to be the answer in LF to go along with Inciarte and Mallex. You are certainly allowed to think that OF combination is good enough to win anything. I personally do not, but to each their own.
 
Enscheff said:
One plays SS and one plays LF. I'm not sure why I would need to explain how "tools" encompasses more than the ability to hit. If you seriously think Swanson and Peterson have the same upside in terms of WAR, I don't really know what to say.

And Swanson is looking more like a 2-3 WAR player (as opposed to the star we thought he was going to be), so comparing the offensive output of a LFer to a good-not-great SS is a little silly.

It's fine, keep dreaming on Peterson to be the answer in LF to go along with Inciarte and Mallex. You are certainly allowed to think that OF combination is good enough to win anything. I personally do not, but to each their own.
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Enscheff....I get what you're saying, but I'm in the camp that believes he'll be much better than a 4th OF. His scouting report from when he was drafted and went to the AFL, are spot on with where is projecting and for a kid that young to do it at AA is AT LEAST pretty darn good. Here's his report:

"Peterson is the type of hitter that will be able to extend the length of the lineup with good plate discipline and pitch recognition. He has the ability to make consistent contact, frequently hitting the ball solidly on the barrel of the bat. And he looks to take the pitch where it is thrown.
Only 18, at this early point of his development, Peterson has a nice, easy swing without trying to extend his capabilities and hit home runs. His swing is polished and mature. There is little movement in his setup, his trigger or at the point of contact regarding his hitting mechanics.
At 6-foot-2, 185 pounds, Peterson's right-handed swing is measured and compact. He swings as though he is happy to be using the entire field. He's patient enough to realize his power will come in time as he fills out with more strength and muscle.
The key to Peterson at this stage is his ability to use his strong hands and quick wrists to get through the ball quickly and with good extension. As I saw when I scouted him in Arizona, he is hitting line drives without much loft or backspin on the ball. Those components generally develop at full maturity." - Bernie Pleskoff MLB.Com

To each his own, but I'm in his camp. Seeing him three times this year...he's barrels balls slightly less than Albies who IMHO does it better than any position player we have.
 
Enscheff said:
One plays SS and one plays LF. I'm not sure why I would need to explain how "tools" encompasses more than the ability to hit. If you seriously think Swanson and Peterson have the same upside in terms of WAR, I don't really know what to say.

And Swanson is looking more like a 2-3 WAR player (as opposed to the star we thought he was going to be), so comparing the offensive output of a LFer to a good-not-great SS is a little silly.

It's fine, keep dreaming on Peterson to be the answer in LF to go along with Inciarte and Mallex. You are certainly allowed to think that OF combination is good enough to win anything. I personally do not, but to each their own.
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I never said anything about the OF being Peterson, Inciarte, and Mallex but thanks for putting those words into my mouth. If I had my way (and if Peterson worked out), I'd like to see Peterson in left, Inciarte or Mallex and center (the other one traded), and a big power bat in RF
 
Deester11 said:
Enscheff....I get what you're saying, but I'm in the camp that believes he'll be much better than a 4th OF. His scouting report from when he was drafted and went to the AFL, are spot on with where is projecting and for a kid that young to do it at AA is AT LEAST pretty darn good. Here's his report:

"Peterson is the type of hitter that will be able to extend the length of the lineup with good plate discipline and pitch recognition. He has the ability to make consistent contact, frequently hitting the ball solidly on the barrel of the bat. And he looks to take the pitch where it is thrown.
Only 18, at this early point of his development, Peterson has a nice, easy swing without trying to extend his capabilities and hit home runs. His swing is polished and mature. There is little movement in his setup, his trigger or at the point of contact regarding his hitting mechanics.
At 6-foot-2, 185 pounds, Peterson's right-handed swing is measured and compact. He swings as though he is happy to be using the entire field. He's patient enough to realize his power will come in time as he fills out with more strength and muscle.
The key to Peterson at this stage is his ability to use his strong hands and quick wrists to get through the ball quickly and with good extension. As I saw when I scouted him in Arizona, he is hitting line drives without much loft or backspin on the ball. Those components generally develop at full maturity." - Bernie Pleskoff MLB.Com

To each his own, but I'm in his camp. Seeing him three times this year...he's barrels balls slightly less than Albies who IMHO does it better than any position player we have.
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I also saw D. Pete twice this year and he struck me as the best hitter on the field.. either team. He doesn't swing hard but the ball just jumps off his bat. I think with a bit more effort he would have more homeruns. But what I saw was a guy who could just make a pitcher work. He is going to be better than just average when he puts it all together. Some of his At bats were just amazing. Never swung at a 'pithcers' pitch, but even his outs, he had at least one line drive foul. It is easy to box score scout a guy (we all do with most of our prospects).. but if you see him hit, you would see what people are saying that he is going to be good one day.
 
Deester11 said:
"Peterson is the type of hitter that will be able to extend the length of the lineup with good plate discipline and pitch recognition.
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A LFer who is "able to extend the length of the lineup" is pretty much the alternate definition of "average player". That's a LFer who bats 6th or 7th. That's a 2 WAR guy. That's an average player.

Again, nothing in that report suggests a 3+ WAR player.
 
bravesfanMatt said:
I also saw D. Pete twice this year and he struck me as the best hitter on the field.. either team. He doesn't swing hard but the ball just jumps off his bat. I think with a bit more effort he would have more homeruns. But what I saw was a guy who could just make a pitcher work. He is going to be better than just average when he puts it all together. Some of his At bats were just amazing. Never swung at a 'pithcers' pitch, but even his outs, he had at least one line drive foul. It is easy to box score scout a guy (we all do with most of our prospects).. but if you see him hit, you would see what people are saying that he is going to be good one day.
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I hope you're right. I hope he turns into a 3+ WAR guy that allows the Braves to have a 12+ WAR OF of Peterson, Mallex and some stud in RF.

I'll put you down in the "over 11.5 WAR" camp.
 
sturg33 said:
I don't know if you've seen him pitch, or making assumptions... but the scouting reports I've read says his mechanics are basically perfect, and is not an obvious opportunity to improve.
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I've watched a good bit of video and read up on him a good bit. When Newcomb is on, his mechanics are perfect and his control is spot on. So it's not something that's wrong with his actual pitching mechanics. When he gets into trouble is when things get out of sync causing him to lose his release point and get very wild. It's when his mechanics are messed up that he has issues.

There's a quote from the Angels manager when he got sent down from ST last year where the manager was very complimentary and said he just has to be able to find a consistent release point.
 
Enscheff said:
I hope you're right. I hope he turns into a 3+ WAR guy that allows the Braves to have a 12+ WAR OF of Peterson, Mallex and some stud in RF.

I'll put you down in the "over 11.5 WAR" camp.
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Count me in. I don't know if I'm driving the bus, but I've got a front row seat.
 
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