A Step Closer to the Chop Being Gone

So am I to understand that the main complaint came from another player who had just lost to us?

I know there may have been other things behind the scenes, but this is really the only comment I remember.

....because if I remember context...it sounded like he was hacked they lost and was just trying to find something to say. It was kinda like “Well your momma is ugly too.” type statement if memory serves me right. He had never said anything about the matter until he had just lost. My guess if they had won that night...it would have never been mentioned.

It did the job though, because from that one, single comment..they pulled the foam tomahawks hours later and gave the whole night a strange vibe.

If I am remembering this wrong let me know...I’m just going of memory. I just remember thinking it was a very strange time to bring that up.
 
TheBravos said:
So am I to understand that the main complaint came from another player who had just lost to us?

I know there may have been other things behind the scenes, but this is really the only comment I remember.

....because if I remember context...it sounded like he was hacked they lost and was just trying to find something to say. It was kinda like “Well your momma is ugly too.” type statement if memory serves me right. He had never said anything about the matter until he had just lost. My guess if they had won that night...it would have never been mentioned.

It did the job though, because from that one, single comment..they pulled the foam tomahawks hours later and gave the whole night a strange vibe.

If I am remembering this wrong let me know...I’m just going of memory. I just remember thinking it was a very strange time to bring that up.
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That's the most recent and publicized one. Certainly not the only one. Changing the Braves' name has been included every time there were discussions about the Redskins, Indians, St. John's Redmen, Syracuse Orangemen, etc. for decades.

This has been going on for years - many of us can remember attending games as kids when Chief Noc-A-Homa hung out in his tepee in the LF seats in Fulton County Stadium before enough people were bothered enough by those optics to finally have them removed.
 
clvclv said:
Let me guess - you're one who organically refuses to wear a mask because it infringes on your rights.

Go get 'em - "You ain't telling me what to do. I'll show you and be *amn proud about it from my ICU bed!!!"
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Not sure where the animosity is coming from my friend. If you want to talk politics and stuff with me feel free to come to the real talk forum. Let's just stick to the baseball stuff here
 
clvclv said:
That's the most recent and publicized one. Certainly not the only one. Changing the Braves' name has been included every time there were discussions about the Redskins, Indians, St. John's Redmen, Syracuse Orangemen, etc. for decades.

This has been going on for years - many of us can remember attending games as kids when Chief Noc-A-Homa hung out in his tepee in the LF seats in Fulton County Stadium before enough people were bothered enough by those optics to finally have them removed.
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I'm actually a St. John's Red Storm (previously Redmen) fan. There are plenty of older alumni who still on their own refer to them as Redmen. And most people hate the Red Storm name. However, there was an article in a local newspaper in NYC recently saying the school was ahead of it's time for the name change, which happened over 2 decades ago. St. John's is a religious school so they really had no choice but to get out ahead of it.

As far as the Braves, I doubt they ever change the name. However, I could easily see the Tomahawk retired next...
 
Enscheff said:
I mean, I know the line is arbitrary to some, and I’m probably biased, but I don’t see the name Braves and a tomahawk chop as equivalent to the name Redskins. Redskins is literally a racial slur. To me, naming a team the Indians is the same as naming it the Cowboys. I mean, is the name San Diego Aztecs also offensive? What about the Fighting Irish?

Ahh well, small price to pay for other social injustices being corrected I suppose.
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As I said in another thread, I think part of the issue is nonspecific generalizations (such as "Indians", a historical misnomer; or "Braves", a violent stereotype) versus tribally- or nationally-specific names (such as "Blackhawks", "Aztecs", "Seminoles", "Illini"). The former seem to be much more contentious than the latter, even if they aren't outright slurs like the DC NFL name.

As for Notre Dame: that's a whole 'nother can-of-worms—but, generally, because of various of racial issues in the US (Black chattel slavery; indigenous genocide) we don't really take anti-Irish (or anti-Italian, or anti-German, or anti-Slavic, &c) language as seriously as other forms of identity-informed derogatory speech. One big reason is because, thanks to decades of re-population during the Great Migration, a lot of those previously-marginalized groups were granted "provisional whiteness" (as the ethnographers call it) when new minority groups moved into northern cities. That's why you can have a situation where the worst mass-lynching in the US was propagated against Sicilians ~130 years ago, but today Martin Scorsese is decried as "some old white guy" when he says he doesn't care for Marvel movies—even though there was still a decent amount of anti-Italian sentiment around the country when he was growing up in the 1950s. Or—and I don't mean to get into political ideology here, at all; just citing a relevant recent example—Bernie Sanders was dismissed as another "old white guy" running for President, even though he's culturally Jewish, with close relatives murdered in the Shoah.

In Ireland proper, they take that stuff a lot more seriously, thanks to deep cultural memory of 500+ years of violent British colonization (with more than one historian over the years describing Ireland as the "training-ground" for the practices Britain used to subjugate and colonize its empire across the globe). But here we throw around terms like "beyond the pale", "paddywagon", or "red-headed stepchild" without batting an eye, and there isn't much uproar regarding the "Fighting Irish" caricature, even though it is, in essence, quite similar to the "Fighting Injun" caricature that is encoded in the "Braves" name.
 
Braves Twitter has been triggered I guess. After 95%+ of people replying #chopon anytime Braves twitter used #fortheA .....Braves twitter just tweeted #fortheA 30...yes 30 times. To which once again about 95%+ of replies underneath were #chopon .

I don’t really care that much about changing their slogan I guess...they do that anyway now and then. It’s just they changed probably their best slogan they have ever come up with to literally one of the worst.

#fortheA will not be adopted by most fans because it’s horrible (on top of replacing #chopon). I don’t see why the Braves are determined to push it when their fan base have loudly voiced they absolutely hate it.
 
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Every year now I find myself caring less and less about baseball. Love the sport but its corrupted. The playing field is intentionally unlevel to favor big market teams. MLB changes to the game almost look like they are intentionally trying to sabotage the Braves. The wild card in 94 made the playoffs bull****. They forced us to share our TBS money with every other team equally. Then they forced us to charge TBS more forcing TBS to cut Braves games entirely. Remember that draft and follow thing the Braves were good at? MLB got rid of that. When TimeWarner was in the process of selling the Braves they sold most of our TV rights to a TimeWarner owned company for 30 years at pennies on the dollar. It was worse than the Marlins local TV contract...... and this was around the same time MLB veto'd the Dodgers 2 billion dollar TV deal for not being enough.... but it was 10 times what the Braves got. Then when Liberty bought the team MLB banned them from pumping money into the franchise requiring rhey be revenue neutral. Then there the case of the secret loan given to the Nationala a few years ago. I still want some GD answers as to why a team with 160 million dollar payroll is getting loans from MLB. Do they even win the world series this last year if not for that loan? What players would they have has to get rid of if they dis not get that loan?





To top that off the umpires are not only bad, but allowed to change the rules arbitrarily. MLB umpires are specifically known to make the wrong call just to spite a player when they feel disrespected. And do so with impunity. WTF.
 
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jpx7 said:
As I said in another thread, I think part of the issue is nonspecific generalizations (such as "Indians", a historical misnomer; or "Braves", a violent stereotype) versus tribally- or nationally-specific names (such as "Blackhawks", "Aztecs", "Seminoles", "Illini"). The former seem to be much more contentious than the latter, even if they aren't outright slurs like the DC NFL name.

As for Notre Dame: that's a whole 'nother can-of-worms—but, generally, because of various of racial issues in the US (Black chattel slavery; indigenous genocide) we don't really take anti-Irish (or anti-Italian, or anti-German, or anti-Slavic, &c) language as seriously as other forms of identity-informed derogatory speech. One big reason is because, thanks to decades of re-population during the Great Migration, a lot of those previously-marginalized groups were granted "provisional whiteness" (as the ethnographers call it) when new minority groups moved into northern cities. That's why you can have a situation where the worst mass-lynching in the US was propagated against Sicilians ~130 years ago, but today Martin Scorsese is decried as "some old white guy" when he says he doesn't care for Marvel movies—even though there was still a decent amount of anti-Italian sentiment around the country when he was growing up in the 1950s. Or—and I don't mean to get into political ideology here, at all; just citing a relevant recent example—Bernie Sanders was dismissed as another "old white guy" running for President, even though he's culturally Jewish, with close relatives murdered in the Shoah.

In Ireland proper, they take that stuff a lot more seriously, thanks to deep cultural memory of 500+ years of violent British colonization (with more than one historian over the years describing Ireland as the "training-ground" for the practices Britain used to subjugate and colonize its empire across the globe). But here we throw around terms like "beyond the pale", "paddywagon", or "red-headed stepchild" without batting an eye, and there isn't much uproar regarding the "Fighting Irish" caricature, even though it is, in essence, quite similar to the "Fighting Injun" caricature that is encoded in the "Braves" name.
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800. 800+ years.
 
good riddance?

i really don't care if it doesn't happen again

also, don't really care if it continues

but the people that go "you'll lose a fan..." yada yada if it went away seems to push me to say

**** it. get rid of it

if you are only a fan cause of the stupid chop, get lost imo
 
Slightly tangential and I may be wrong but...I believe "Fighting Irish" was not originally intended as a slur but to pay respect to the (New York based) Irish Infantry Regiments that fought so valiantly during the Civil War.
 
jpx7 said:
As I said in another thread, I think part of the issue is nonspecific generalizations (such as "Indians", a historical misnomer; or "Braves", a violent stereotype) versus tribally- or nationally-specific names (such as "Blackhawks", "Aztecs", "Seminoles", "Illini"). The former seem to be much more contentious than the latter, even if they aren't outright slurs like the DC NFL name.

As for Notre Dame: that's a whole 'nother can-of-worms—but, generally, because of various of racial issues in the US (Black chattel slavery; indigenous genocide) we don't really take anti-Irish (or anti-Italian, or anti-German, or anti-Slavic, &c) language as seriously as other forms of identity-informed derogatory speech. One big reason is because, thanks to decades of re-population during the Great Migration, a lot of those previously-marginalized groups were granted "provisional whiteness" (as the ethnographers call it) when new minority groups moved into northern cities. That's why you can have a situation where the worst mass-lynching in the US was propagated against Sicilians ~130 years ago, but today Martin Scorsese is decried as "some old white guy" when he says he doesn't care for Marvel movies—even though there was still a decent amount of anti-Italian sentiment around the country when he was growing up in the 1950s. Or—and I don't mean to get into political ideology here, at all; just citing a relevant recent example—Bernie Sanders was dismissed as another "old white guy" running for President, even though he's culturally Jewish, with close relatives murdered in the Shoah.

In Ireland proper, they take that stuff a lot more seriously, thanks to deep cultural memory of 500+ years of violent British colonization (with more than one historian over the years describing Ireland as the "training-ground" for the practices Britain used to subjugate and colonize its empire across the globe). But here we throw around terms like "beyond the pale", "paddywagon", or "red-headed stepchild" without batting an eye, and there isn't much uproar regarding the "Fighting Irish" caricature, even though it is, in essence, quite similar to the "Fighting Injun" caricature that is encoded in the "Braves" name.
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i recommend a summer internship in southie doing ethnographic research...with a side trip to the north end...before both become completely gentrified...you might even find some promising poets along the way

btw the irish themselves refer to alcholism as the "irish disease" or the "good man's disease"...what do we do with these people
 
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JohnAdcox said:
Can we just look back to our storied history and go back to the Red Stockings or the Beaneaters?
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I think Red Stockings could definitely work and like the idea behind pulling something from our history. But Beaneaters would be another racist issue, yeah?
 
tenor.gif
 
Cutting the season down to 60 games then maybe cancelling it seems a little drastic just to get rid of the Chop. But ok
 
Dalyn said:
I think Red Stockings could definitely work and like the idea behind pulling something from our history. But Beaneaters would be another racist issue, yeah?
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Well, historically, it’s just about eating beans. And that applies to only one race: the human race.
 
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