AA's Failure

I've never understood the desire to add a starting pitcher when the top two levels of the minors were full of SP prospects. Mid-market teams have to use that kind of talent to compete.

Same thing with Kimbrel. If a mid-market spends that kind of cash on a closer they will be handicapped elsewhere. You have to be able to fill that spot internally, cheaply. The failure to sign one of the bargain FA bullpen guys baffles me, as does cutting Sam Freeman.

I'm disappointed that Will Myers seems to be the best answer for RF that we were close on, and loathe that Markakis was the fallback plan.

Donaldson for one year is our best FA sign in many years. I expect some games this year where he, Freddie, and Acuna just destroy teams. It's just too bad there wasn't another legitimate bat added with him.

McCann and Flowers will be great for our young pitchers.

That certainly doesn't add up to an A+, but I can't see calling it a failure either.
 
Frankly if the braves not signing Donaldson would have had lead them to overpay other FAs, I’m glad they signed Donaldson.

I don’t think not signing Donaldson would have lead to a better offseason though it might have met someone’s own fetishes better.
 
Southcack77 said:
Frankly if the braves not signing Donaldson would have had lead them to overpay other FAs, I’m glad they signed Donaldson.

I don’t think not signing Donaldson would have lead to a better offseason though it might have met someone’s own fetishes better.
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I’m pretty sure the only festish that was satisfied was AA’s to sign his bff, Donaldson. We had Camargo at third that would have sufficed. In fact, I’m willing to bet had Camargo been given the season to start at third he would have bested Donaldson’s numbers this year. But since we’ll never know, I’m willing to bet Camargo’s 2017 will best Donaldson’s 2018. In any event, having Camargo at third and using the 23 million to fill the holes the team had in rf and in the pen would have been much smarter and constructed a much better team. Instead we’ve literally put all of our eggs into one oft injured basket, and at the same time have downgraded in rf and the pen from last year. The offseason and AA = failure and this season may very well follow the same.
 
tululush said:
I’m pretty sure the only festish that was satisfied was AA’s to sign his bff, Donaldson. We had Camargo at third that would have sufficed. In fact, I’m willing to bet had Camargo been given the season to start at third he would have bested Donaldson’s numbers this year. But since we’ll never know, I’m willing to bet Camargo’s 2017 will best Donaldson’s 2018. In any event, having Camargo at third and using the 23 million to fill the holes the team had in rf and in the pen would have been much smarter and constructed a much better team. Instead we’ve literally put all of our eggs into one oft injured basket, and at the same time have downgraded in rf and the pen from last year. The offseason and AA = failure and this season may very well follow the same.
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Lmao
 
I've always like AA but I'm starting to wonder if he's just a bad negotiator... this off season with the the trades that were close to happening that never happened and the Carter Stewart situation...
 
CyYoung31 said:
Lmao
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In 464 abs last year, Camargo finished with 63 runs, 19 hr, 76 rbi, 1 sb, .272 avg and .806 ops.

Yes, with Donaldson’s injury history and age, I’m willing to bet that those numbers best what’s Donaldson does in 2019.

And let’s not also forget to take into account Donaldson’s salary of 23 million this year vs Camargo’s salary of 575k.

I stand by my argument that not only will 2018 Camargo produce more offense than 2019 Donaldson, but we will have spent 22 million more in the process when that money could have been used elsewhere.

Complete failure for AA.
 
Enscheff said:
Someone please summarize as if this is a message board
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Braves don't have any money to make significant moves in FA/trades. Even though we spent 30 million in FA this off-season (with lots of payroll flexibility according to Liberty Media) and only have a total of 30 million in commitments for 2020.

Basically it boils down to he's still butt hurt we didn't trade Freeman.
 
tululush said:
In 464 abs last year, Camargo finished with 63 runs, 19 hr, 76 rbi, 1 sb, .272 avg and .806 ops.

Yes, with Donaldson’s injury history and age, I’m willing to bet that those numbers best what’s Donaldson does in 2019.

And let’s not also forget to take into account Donaldson’s salary of 23 million this year vs Camargo’s salary of 575k.

I stand by my argument that not only will 2018 Camargo produce more offense than 2019 Donaldson, but we will have spent 22 million more in the process when that money could have been used elsewhere.

Complete failure for AA.
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Camargo ran into some good luck to get those offensive numbers. He's likely more of a 1-2 WAR player than a consistent 3 WAR player. Donaldson is likely a 4-5 WAR player or better. The extra 20 million is WELL worth the likely 3 WAR difference.

Not to mention. Camargo is still on the team and will likely see about 400-500 at bats in some capacity over the year.
 
tululush said:
In 464 abs last year, Camargo finished with 63 runs, 19 hr, 76 rbi, 1 sb, .272 avg and .806 ops.

Yes, with Donaldson’s injury history and age, I’m willing to bet that those numbers best what’s Donaldson does in 2019.

And let’s not also forget to take into account Donaldson’s salary of 23 million this year vs Camargo’s salary of 575k.

I stand by my argument that not only will 2018 Camargo produce more offense than 2019 Donaldson, but we will have spent 22 million more in the process when that money could have been used elsewhere.

Complete failure for AA.
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Camargo was 9.9 batting runs above average in 2018. Donaldson's lowest amount prior to last year was 22.7

Donaldson is a much better hitter and it's not close.
 
Carp said:
Camargo ran into some good luck to get those offensive numbers. He's likely more of a 1-2 WAR player than a consistent 3 WAR player. Donaldson is likely a 4-5 WAR player or better. The extra 20 million is WELL worth the likely 3 WAR difference.

Not to mention. Camargo is still on the team and will likely see about 400-500 at bats in some capacity over the year.
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It’s kind of a moot point since I said Camargo’s numbers last year will be better than Donaldson’s this year. It’s a black and white statement. Not, well Camargo lucked into those stats. Luck, skill, or both, those were his numbers. And I think Donaldson’s 2019 offensive numbers will be on par or worse than Camargo’s in 2018. If Donaldson injures himself and goes down for the season will the excuse be, “well if he didn’t get injured...” No. It’s part of the game and the argument I’m making. Objectively, 2018 Camargo will be on par or better than 2019 Donaldson offensively.
 
tululush said:
It’s kind of a moot point since I said Camargo’s numbers last year will be better than Donaldson’s this year. It’s a black and white statement. Not, well Camargo lucked into those stats. Luck, skill, or both, those were his numbers. And I think Donaldson’s 2019 offensive numbers will be on par or worse than Camargo’s in 2018. If Donaldson injures himself and goes down for the season will the excuse be, “well if he didn’t get injured...” No. It’s part of the game and the argument I’m making. Objectively, 2018 Camargo will be on par or better than 2019 Donaldson offensively.
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The chances of that happening are remotely slim. Just as the odds of Camargo repeating his 2018 numbers are small as well.
 
tululush said:
It’s kind of a moot point since I said Camargo’s numbers last year will be better than Donaldson’s this year. It’s a black and white statement. Not, well Camargo lucked into those stats. Luck, skill, or both, those were his numbers. And I think Donaldson’s 2019 offensive numbers will be on par or worse than Camargo’s in 2018. If Donaldson injures himself and goes down for the season will the excuse be, “well if he didn’t get injured...” No. It’s part of the game and the argument I’m making. Objectively, 2018 Camargo will be on par or better than 2019 Donaldson offensively.
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It's highly doubtful. Particularly if you're only basing it on offense. I'd say it's pretty likely Donaldson is a high .800, low .900 OPS type of hitter (like he was for Cleveland last year). Sure there is a little more risk of injury, but the other OF options available had the same risk without the offensive upside.
 
Enscheff said:
Someone please summarize as if this is a message board
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If I don't at least try to provide detail to what I'm saying all I get is straw man arguments (I usually get them anyway because I say what people don't want to think about much less hear). There's one right now, a passive aggressive straw man, regarding trading Freeman in another thread.

In four years we'll all be sitting around the computer wondering what happened to those promising young Braves and everyone's answer will be bad luck or insufficient payroll when the real problem will be a bad rebuild from root causes.
 
CyYoung31 said:
The Braves only wanted to give the “illusion” of a rebuild by losing 90+ games for 3 straight years.
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You can suck with a good plan and set the foundation for it not to happen again for a long time.

OR, you can suck with no real coherent plan and be right back to sucking again soon.
 
Last edited:
But...the Braves didn’t suck last year and are very unlikely to suck this year.

I think the root cause of your ranting is that you don’t quite understand what is reasonable to expect from a team with a middling payroll. Winning 85-90 wins long term is about the best that can be expecteded.
 
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