AA's Failure

it was far from a perfect offseason. the team is still at worst good and more can be added throughout the season. almost any team’s offseason can be critiqued. for all the phillies added, they’re still starting franco at 3B when that was a strong FA position. (he’s started the season hot but i think we know what he is).

but it’s not like AA decided to trot some below-average team out there. a potentially huge player was added to a good young team. they are far from doomed despite the whine level.
 
striker42 said:
Again, the day to day record of the team isn't the issue here. The issue is that the roster has holes that could have been fixed. We needed a couple arms for the pen and preferably one decent starter. The weaknesses in the pitching staff will cause issues this year.

I expect people to think our pitching staff is fine once Gausman and Folty join Minter in returning. However, injuries WILL strike again. One thing you can depend on is you will have pitchers go down with injuries. Having more veteran depth would put us in such a better position when they strike.

As for the OF, I'm thrilled Markakis has started off the year hot. How well he'll maintain it is another question. If we had someone to platoon with him out there, I'd feel better but AA's unflinching confidence in Duv-awful has robbed us of that opportunity.
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Dude- this is 13 pages. We got it. You have been discussing this multiple places.

I just think it’s hilarious with all the sky is falling posts and failure references one game into the season. Most didn’t even wait for the first series to Finnish before they started moping
 
Super said:
it was far from a perfect offseason. the team is still at worst good and more can be added throughout the season. almost any team’s offseason can be critiqued. for all the phillies added, they’re still starting franco at 3B when that was a strong FA position. (he’s started the season hot but i think we know what he is).

but it’s not like AA decided to trot some below-average team out there. a potentially huge player was added to a good young team. they are far from doomed despite the whine level.
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My biggest problem with the offseason was how easily the pen could have been addressed. I'm not even talking about getting Kimbrel (though that would have been nice). I'm talking about getting a couple middle relievers. Adding depth to the pen was easy, would have a significant impact to the team, and the fact that it wasn't done astounds me.

I agree that this is a good team. The offense is excellent. I'm just frustrated that it could have been improved and wasn't. It's like buying a sports car and not springing for one with a turbo.
 
bravesfanMatt said:
The team was good to great before the off-season started. I don’t think saying the team is good so AA succeeded is very logical
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I agree with you, but I think AA looked forward and believes our window hasn't truly opened yet. Obviously we won the division last year and are still a pretty good team that could compete this year. But next year is when things start to come together - Pache, Riley, potentially Waters at some point, Anderson and Touki with more seasoned Fried/Wright/Wilson/Soroka, etc.

If we had given up some of those pieces for a guy like Realmuto, we would have maybe only marginally improved C this year at the expense of the amount of talent we'll start to see over the next year or two. And I think next year is when our true window starts to open. I think he showed restraint that we will benefit from down the road. This team wasn't in position to add 1-2 pieces and truly be a contender with Houston, Boston, etc. We need more. And more is coming soon.
 
smootness said:
I agree with you, but I think AA looked forward and believes our window hasn't truly opened yet. Obviously we won the division last year and are still a pretty good team that could compete this year. But next year is when things start to come together - Pache, Riley, potentially Waters at some point, Anderson and Touki with more seasoned Fried/Wright/Wilson/Soroka, etc.

If we had given up some of those pieces for a guy like Realmuto, we would have maybe only marginally improved C this year at the expense of the amount of talent we'll start to see over the next year or two. And I think next year is when our true window starts to open. I think he showed restraint that we will benefit from down the road. This team wasn't in position to add 1-2 pieces and truly be a contender with Houston, Boston, etc. We need more. And more is coming soon.
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Fair point, but not all of Soroka, Anderson, Gohara, Fried, Wilson, Touki, Wright, etc will pan out, it's why i would have used some of them in a trade for a guy like Realmuto. But AA still has them to use in a trade down the line if he so chooses.

But i do agree with the bottom i dont think AA believes our window is opened yet.
 
smootness said:
I agree with you, but I think AA looked forward and believes our window hasn't truly opened yet. Obviously we won the division last year and are still a pretty good team that could compete this year. But next year is when things start to come together - Pache, Riley, potentially Waters at some point, Anderson and Touki with more seasoned Fried/Wright/Wilson/Soroka, etc.

If we had given up some of those pieces for a guy like Realmuto, we would have maybe only marginally improved C this year at the expense of the amount of talent we'll start to see over the next year or two. And I think next year is when our true window starts to open. I think he showed restraint that we will benefit from down the road. This team wasn't in position to add 1-2 pieces and truly be a contender with Houston, Boston, etc. We need more. And more is coming soon.
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I am fine with this. However what gets me worked up was that wasn’t sold to us. It was billed to be a big off season. And it wasn’t. Now maybe it was the right move to wait and see. But that wasn’t promised.
 
bravesfanMatt said:
I am fine with this. However what gets me worked up was that wasn’t sold to us. It was billed to be a big off season. And it wasn’t. Now maybe it was the right move to wait and see. But that wasn’t promised.
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I mean... Josh F'n Donaldson is a big offseason.

Other than the Filthies, and San Diego who signed a bigger bat?

I feel like it happened so far in the offseason that people forget about it.
 
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striker42 said:
My biggest problem with the offseason was how easily the pen could have been addressed. I'm not even talking about getting Kimbrel (though that would have been nice). I'm talking about getting a couple middle relievers. Adding depth to the pen was easy, would have a significant impact to the team, and the fact that it wasn't done astounds me.

I agree that this is a good team. The offense is excellent. I'm just frustrated that it could have been improved and wasn't. It's like buying a sports car and not springing for one with a turbo.
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Adding middle relievers was the last thing they needed to do this offseason. They have plenty of them.

If there is a criticism it's not in adding a high leverage guy.

When a number of guys get hurt and you are forced to pitch guys who are riding the shuttle, it's not going to be pretty no matter who you are.

Depth is depth. It's the rare club where depth is going to be electric and that's going to be system driven rather than free agent. Because the market is going to price good relievers such that they aren't the 10th man in someone's bullpen.
 
bravesfanMatt said:
I am fine with this. However what gets me worked up was that wasn’t sold to us. It was billed to be a big off season. And it wasn’t. Now maybe it was the right move to wait and see. But that wasn’t promised.
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I do agree that the messaging wasn't great, which has been a consistent theme with the FO, no matter who the GM is. I think that goes back to Terry McGuirk. I think he holds a belief that if the fans aren't told we are about to start spending and competing, they'll lose interest, and he doesn't seem to realize that if they are told something that doesn't ultimately happen, it erodes their interest and faith in the FO far more than if they knew from the beginning what was going to happen.

I think AA holds a perspective (based on what he's done) that we can still compete this year but that it isn't worth giving up future pieces to go too hard after things that are only short-term solutions. I think he views our window as something like a 6-10 year window beginning around 2020-2021; on that, maybe I'm projecting what I believe.

But regardless, he clearly is protecting our future. What he has said, or at least alluded to, at times is that we're ready to spend and go for it. I think McGuirk is the one pushing that and basically telling him to say that because he fears losing the fanbase. I wish they would just tell us how it is - 'We're going to make some moves to try to improve the team this year, but we're not going to sell the future because we believe that's where we will truly compete.' I think they probably fear the way the current players would hear that as well, which is fair.
 
smootness said:
I do agree that the messaging wasn't great, which has been a consistent theme with the FO, no matter who the GM is. I think that goes back to Terry McGuirk. I think he holds a belief that if the fans aren't told we are about to start spending and competing, they'll lose interest, and he doesn't seem to realize that if they are told something that doesn't ultimately happen, it erodes their interest and faith in the FO far more than if they knew from the beginning what was going to happen.

I think AA holds a perspective (based on what he's done) that we can still compete this year but that it isn't worth giving up future pieces to go too hard after things that are only short-term solutions. I think he views our window as something like a 6-10 year window beginning around 2020-2021; on that, maybe I'm projecting what I believe.

But regardless, he clearly is protecting our future. What he has said, or at least alluded to, at times is that we're ready to spend and go for it. I think McGuirk is the one pushing that and basically telling him to say that because he fears losing the fanbase. I wish they would just tell us how it is - 'We're going to make some moves to try to improve the team this year, but we're not going to sell the future because we believe that's where we will truly compete.' I think they probably fear the way the current players would hear that as well, which is fair.
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In their defense, they probably thought signing a recent MVP to the highest single season contract in club history would probably be perceived as a significant move to try and win. I sort of think it's remarkable that it's been completely shrugged off myself.
 
Tapate50 said:
I mean... Josh F'n Donaldson is a big offseason.

Other than the Filthies, and San Diego who signed a bigger bat?

I feel like it happened so far in the offseason that people forget about it.
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Ok. But it is one year deal which would not make sense with the whole AA doesn’t think our window is open jive.

I am still excited for this team. Love the young guys getting their shot. Never once thought we needed to add a starter. I wanted a reliever or two and a small upgrade in RF or Neck with offensive upgrade at catcher or utility. Now the way Neck is raking maybe keeping him fresh will produce great results.
 
bravesfanMatt said:
Ok. But it is one year deal which would not make sense with the whole AA doesn’t think our window is open jive.

I am still excited for this team. Love the young guys getting their shot. Never once thought we needed to add a starter. I wanted a reliever or two and a small upgrade in RF or Neck with offensive upgrade at catcher or utility. Now the way Neck is raking maybe keeping him fresh will produce great results.
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A one year deal is excellent for the team.
 
striker42 said:
As for the OF, I'm thrilled Markakis has started off the year hot. How well he'll maintain it is another question. If we had someone to platoon with him out there, I'd feel better but AA's unflinching confidence in Duv-awful has robbed us of that opportunity.
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We have Camargo, who looks like he will be in the outfield (for either Ender or Muk) whenever the other team has a lefty starting. Btw signing Donaldson makes it possible to use Camargo this way.
 
Heyward said:
I agree the bullpen needs to be addressed, it's a mess.
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I agree. Enough has gone wrong with the pen to make it likely some moves will be made.

Things that have gone wrong: O'Day injury, Freeman not doing well enough in spring training to make the team, Winkler not doing well enough in spring training to make the team, Carle and Sobotka not ready for prime time.

Only silver lining so far is Parsons and that not enough to offset the things that have gone wrong.

We can start compiling a list of relievers from teams that are likely to be sellers. A few names to kick things off: Givens from the Orioles, Smith and Watson from the Giants.
 
nsacpi said:
We have Camargo, who looks like he will be in the outfield (for either Ender or Muk) whenever the other team has a lefty starting. Btw signing Donaldson makes it possible to use Camargo this way.
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I'm not sure what got lost between "hey, Camargo's our super utility infielder and he's going to get 500 ABs" and "we have no one to be a fourth OF vs LHP" but it sure did get lost.

Camargo filling that role makes it much more reasonable that they didn't go out and get some a scrap heap RH platoon OF.

They sort of made it look like that wasn't the plan for a second, which I guess made people nervous.

I am on board with trying to figure out if Camargo was right for this role and seeing how legit his bat really is. That's important information for the Braves.

They can do more at deadline when non-contenders are trying to cash out players if necessary. And they get more time to figure out what young guys can do before committing to trading them.
 
I hope camargo gets more starts versus righties too. He needs more playing time than he is getting. Nothing wrong with resting our guys more. Including Donaldson and FF. Once season gets into full swing I hope to see camargo starting 3-4 times a week.
 
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