Affordable Care Act

sturg33 said:
By the way - less than 50,000 people have enrolled.

Much more than that, have lost their health insurance. And it's estimated that more than 52 million people will lose it.

But hey - it's a good thing!
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Just to be fair, only 4.8 million people have lost their coverage so far, the number is projected to get to 52 million.

If you count the state exchanges with the federal exchange, you have about 100,000 people enrolled.

So so far, we have a net health insurance coverage of minus 4.7 million. But somehow, 57 will figure a way to defend it.

The enrollments have missed the government estimation by more than 80%.

Well done!
 
Tapate50 said:
We would have been better off pushing the business to independent agents that are far more knowledgable about insurance, but that would have caused less government involvement. That would also not have cost the US Taxpayers a dime.
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Can you show the 2009-10 (or earlier) proposal you advocate --- then how and when it was voted ?
 
57Brave said:
Can you show the 2009-10 (or earlier) proposal you advocate --- then how and when it was voted ?
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If we had to have this healthcare that everyone was clamoring for, it would have been better run through agents who actually know insurance. Does that need a proposal or just to use the access system we already had in place - for free.
 
So Bill Clinton came out today and said Obama should honor his commitment for people keeping Thier insurance if they like it. So now it begins :Hillary distancing herself from the mess that is Obamacare.
 
Krgrecw said:
So Bill Clinton came out today and said Obama should honor his commitment for people keeping Thier insurance if they like it. So now it begins :Hillary distancing herself from the mess that is Obamacare.
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This is payback from 2008. Even though I'm a solid Democrat, I always laugh when Bill Clinton talks. I seriously wonder if he believes anything.

tapate50, I get what you are saying and I'm for the individual mandate and don't have anything against doing it through the private market. But taxpayers would have been asked to subsidize the premiums for low-income folks who simply can't afford any policy and the expansion of medicaid. The other story that's really not being told--or at least told well--in the cancellation story is that most of those policies are pure crap. It's like having a deductible on your auto insurance that is higher than the value of your car. I'm all for private industry doing things it can do, but there has to be some measure of accountability and minimum standards in place.

Jonathon Cohn and Alec MacGillis have been putting up a good fight for the pro-Affordable Care Act side at The New Republic and if anyone is looking for that, I'd head over there.
 
Those who know a lot more than I do:
How can someone defend Obama saying people will be able to keep their insurance if they like it, when that is (apparently) not true at all? I'm not a hater or a fanboy of Obama, but I'm curious as to what happened there and how he was so "off."
 
If you read this entire thread, 57 makes the arugment that he MEANT to say *as long as current plant meets our new ridiculous minimum standards
 
Those that know more and care more about politics.....How can Obamacare be stopped at this point?
 
thethe said:
Those that know more and care more about politics.....How can Obamacare be stopped at this point?
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I think it's here to stay. Republicans will run on it in 2014, realize it's too big of a mess to undo and the only chance to not completely screw everyone over is by trying to fix it. I think they blew their chances on repealing it when they elected Romney as their presidential candidate. It's too late now.
 
sturg33 said:
If you read this entire thread, 57 makes the arugment that he MEANT to say *as long as current plant meets our new ridiculous minimum standards
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I maintain he said exactly what he meant to say. I also think he assumed people to be sophisticated enough to know that anything that has to do with anything involving insurance is never black and white.
What he never said was that ACA would eliminate the small print ---

I am in favor of dismantling the whole insurance industry (that has as much of a chance in hell as dismantling the Fed or going back to the gold standard) -- . As it is there are numerous proposals on the table to rectify the situation.

Had we gotten single payer - this wouldn't be an issue or a scandal or a tempest in a teapot or what ever the fist shakers call it.
Funny how the logic of single payer looks better and better every day. Across the political spectrum
 
thethe said:
Those that know more and care more about politics.....How can Obamacare be stopped at this point?
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I think there will dramatic changes during the next Congress and subsequent administration, but the goal of covering more people is bound to continue and it should. It's going to cost money somewhere and the problem with the plan that was developed and administered was too opaque. I'm no health care expert, but there were going to be increased costs for some in this and I think that the Obama administration, while not running away from that fact, could have admitted that from the get-go. There are a lot of things in this legislation that the average American wants (no denial on pre-existing conditions, allowing parents to keep kids on policies longer, etc.) and that's going will provide incentive to keep a lot of the law.

I don't necessarily know if access to health care is a human right. I frankly don't know what is a human right. Judging from a lot of the comments in here, a lot of you don't think that's a very high priority and so be it. All I know is our tax burden when compared internationally is extremely low and we spend more on defense than the next ten countries combined. It's all about priorities.
 
57Brave said:
I maintain he said exactly what he meant to say. I also think he assumed people to be sophisticated enough to know that anything that has to do with anything involving insurance is never black and white.
What he never said was that ACA would eliminate the small print ---
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So he was intentionally misleading?
I think he said what he meant to say, but not necessarily what was true. When he says "If you like your current insurance, you can keep it," we're supposed to interpret that and read through the lines? That's a pretty ridiculous defense. In my opinion, he said that so people would think they're ok keeping what they have, and then when it was too late, ripping the carpet out from under them.

Seriously, if you can't be critical of that kind of deception, then IMO you're not being objective in the least.
 
who said i was objective? I want expanded coverage to succeed.
The only existing vehicle to expanded coverage is ACA

Even though I don't think this approach goes far enough and is not the plan I favored.
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For the KAzillioith time -- I wasn't mislead and not surprised there were glitches.
I don't want a President that feels he has to explain every detail of every issue or as the cogneciti would label it "talk down" to me. At some point I am responsible to do my own homework.

Funny how that personal responsibility argument gets cherry picked by those that tout it with fervor when talking about the not so well off getting assistance. Until of course it is them called on to do the leg work to understand something as basic as to how a major change in health care insurance could or could not affect them and theirs.
What more basic personal responsibility is there?
 
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