Affordable Care Act

sturg33 said:
Because "mental health" should not be something you or I should be subsidizing
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I didn't say that we necessarily should (although, we basically already were before Obamacare in some form or another). But now, all insurances are forced to cover it. That is most certainly a positive.
 
Carp said:
I didn't say that we necessarily should (although, we basically already were before Obamacare in some form or another). But now, all insurances are forced to cover it. That is most certainly a positive.
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Private entities being "forced" to do anything is most certainly a negative, and always leads to exploding costs, as we have seen.

If someone wants "mental health care" in their policy they can pay for it
 
sturg33 said:
Private entities being "forced" to do anything is most certainly a negative, and always leads to exploding costs, as we have seen.

If someone wants "mental health care" in their policy they can pay for it
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Unless you have a history of mental health issues, because they wouldn't have covered you then.

Preventing your insurance from denying you treatment or medication because of a pre-existing condition is most certainly not a negative. Exploding costs are happening for a multitude of reasons, with corporate greed being among them. Health insurance is a scam. It's hilarious that you claim to be so pro-freedom while prior to Obamacare, doctors could have refused to treat you if you didn't have insurance, thereby forcing you to carry said insurance.

But it tracks with a lot of your viewpoints that make you a hypocrite, so I really shouldn't be surprised.
 
Carp said:
Unless you have a history of mental health issues, because they wouldn't have covered you then.

Preventing your insurance from denying you treatment or medication because of a pre-existing condition is most certainly not a negative. Exploding costs are happening for a multitude of reasons, with corporate greed being among them. Health insurance is a scam. It's hilarious that you claim to be so pro-freedom while prior to Obamacare, doctors could have refused to treat you if you didn't have insurance, thereby forcing you to carry said insurance.

But it tracks with a lot of your viewpoints that make you a hypocrite, so I really shouldn't be surprised.
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you'll have to elaborate on how my desire for a doctor to have freedom to treat patients who have the capacity to pay for their service makes me an anti-freedom hypocrite

when it comes to medicine - you want socialism. You have it here, and it sucks
 
It's a shame that there isn't a country in the world that has pursued a "non-socialist" approach to healthcare. It would give us a valuable point of comparison. Maybe there is such a country and I'm not aware of it.
 
sturg33 said:
you'll have to elaborate on how my desire for a doctor to have freedom to treat patients who have the capacity to pay for their service makes me an anti-freedom hypocrite

when it comes to medicine - you want socialism. You have it here, and it sucks
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Who says the people lack the capacity to pay for it? Do doctors get paid by insurance companied immediately or do they bill them for the services?
 
Carp said:
Who says the people lack the capacity to pay for it? Do doctors get paid by insurance companied immediately or do they bill them for the services?
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it depends on what the doctor chooses to do. Some doctors don't deal with insurance anymore because it's such a headache. My wife being one of them - everything is out of pocket or financed.

Other doctors are happy to work with insurance because it expands the patient pool.

That has nothing to do with my opinion that mental heal care should not be a forced coverage option from insurance companies. If an insurance companies want to offer it, great. If not, then find one who does or pay out of pocket for the service

(im not sure how the above computes to an anti-freedom statement)
 
Mental health is literally part of your health. So I don't know wtf you're talking about.

Allowing insurance companies to pick and choose what to cover and what not to cover is how we've gotten into this mess in the first place.
 
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sturg33 said:
it depends on what the doctor chooses to do. Some doctors don't deal with insurance anymore because it's such a headache. My wife being one of them - everything is out of pocket or financed.

Other doctors are happy to work with insurance because it expands the patient pool.

That has nothing to do with my opinion that mental heal care should not be a forced coverage option from insurance companies. If an insurance companies want to offer it, great. If not, then find one who does or pay out of pocket for the service

(im not sure how the above computes to an anti-freedom statement)
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Given this very weird line you’ve drawn, do you support insurance companies not covering other illnesses such as cancer?
 
Carp said:
Mental health is literally part of your health. So I don't know wtf you're talking about.

Allowing insurance companies to pick and choose what to cover and what not to cover is how we've gotten into this mess in the first place.
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At this point I don't know what you're arguing at. First you call me a hypocrite but can't explain why. I get you want your free healthcare. But forcing insurers to cover mental health and pre existing conditions is the reason costs have exploded beyond comprehension

All I'm arguing for is a voluntary market where insurers can offer what they want and the consumer can choose or decline what the consumer decides

Crazy!
 
mqt said:
Given this very weird line you’ve drawn, do you support insurance companies not covering other illnesses such as cancer?
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I support insurances companies not covering things that they never agreed to cover. If that policy doesn't cover cancer treatments, then why should they cover it?

For the record, I would only buy an insurance policy that would cover cancer treatments
 
sturg33 said:
you'll have to elaborate on how my desire for a doctor to have freedom to treat patients who have the capacity to pay for their service makes me an anti-freedom hypocrite

when it comes to medicine - you want socialism. You have it here, and it sucks
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I’m confused. Are doctors being forced to directly treat the mental health of their patients by the insurance companies?
 
Most everyone in our area pays the hospital like a buck a month to keep current

I don’t think many have insurance and the hospitals on the hook for all the indigent care
 
sturg33 said:
I support insurances companies not covering things that they never agreed to cover. If that policy doesn't cover cancer treatments, then why should they cover it?

For the record, I would only buy an insurance policy that would cover cancer treatments
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I’m fine if your argument is to not make insurance companies pay for services in general. It’s an awful system for many, but it’s intellectually honest. I just think you must have some interesting views on mental health given the way you’ve chosen to make this particular argument.
 
mqt said:
I’m fine if your argument is to not make insurance companies pay for services in general. It’s an awful system for many, but it’s intellectually honest. I just think you must have some interesting views on mental health given the way you’ve chosen to make this particular argument.
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Carp started the conversation by saying it was a good thing that insurance companies are "forced to cover mental health" and I fundamentally disagree in the strongest of terms
 
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mqt said:
I have more of my money taken in the service of killing people in the Middle East than other people’s health care.
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not even close.

$1.4T to medicare and medicaid compared to $886B on DoD.

I'll make a deal with you though - let's indiscriminately cut 40% of both?
 
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