AHCA
- Thread starter 57Brave
- Start date
And how did we ever get to this point in society without forced healthcare coverage?
sturg33
I
Well... you guy are acting like going closer to a system we had 6 years ago will literally end with millions of people dying.
You can NEVER take back an entitlement... which is why we should never give them
No I've made a conscious decision to eat peas. Just like that example all decisions should be at the power of the indivudual. You don't agree though. You want to take away that autonomy in the spirit of the collective.
sturg33
I
Everything with liberalism is through force.
"Raise the minimum wage" (force)
"Make people have health insurance" (force)
" subsidize healthcare from rich to poor" (force)
I could go on, but it seems if their policies were so good, people would voluntarily do them
That force will become violent eventually. That's the end of America.
Oklahomahawk
Boras' Client
OK let's see if we can get a few of these things straight. If memory serves sturg is against corporate welfare though I don't recall him ever criticizing it with anywhere near the passion in which he blasts Bernie Sanders or Steak sauce. Also it seems like I recall him being OK with the outsourcing of American jobs but I can't swear to that. Sturg if you would straighten me out here I would appreciate it. I know he's VERY against the MIC and our expensive (but profitable depending on who you're talking about) foreign adventures? I applaud him for #1 and #3 in varying amounts. I'll wait on #2 until he gives his stance.
So, thethe, what's your stance on these things?
I'd let companies fail.
I'd incentivize companies to hire domestic workers.
I believe in a strong military to ensure our interests are protected but I'm against war against the current enemy we are facing as its a losing battle. Unless of course we fight like soldiers are supposed to do on the battlefield.
I'd incentivize companies to hire domestic workers.
I believe in a strong military to ensure our interests are protected but I'm against war against the current enemy we are facing as its a losing battle. Unless of course we fight like soldiers are supposed to do on the battlefield.
Oklahomahawk
Boras' Client
I think this is pretty fair so far. On #1 we need good, reasonable, realistic regulations and rules especially in the areas of banking/finance and the environment. Not stupid crap like the PETA aholes going to movie sites to make sure no flies were being swatted (which I don't know if that's true or not but I heard it was a few years back and knowing how psycho those people can be it doesn't surprise me). Remember good, reasonable, realistic, but punished strictly if it/they are violated.
#2, you see the problem is they're already being incentivized to do that, they're taking all those incentives and still outsourcing and threatening to take their companies to Europe (I forget the exact term) because our corporate taxes are too high, like freakin' Europe isn't going to take them way worse, but as you've seen in the last election the American voter is about as stupid, generally speaking, as Moe, Larry, and Curley after eating lead paint 3 times a day for 40 years (if you don't believe me add up how many people voted for either Hilldog or Trump and then add those numbers together).
#3 This is where we need to draw the distinction. I am 110% for an uber strong military. I value national defense a LOT, but that is absolutely totally NOT the same thing as letting the MIC rape and pillage the national treasury under the guise of protecting us.
So you see we actually agree to a pretty large extent, it's only on a couple of things, more details than anything that we aren't in agreement. The problem is, remember the old saying the devil is in the details.
Glad to see the R senators from Ohio and West Virginia come out and admit the senate bill hurts the people in the opiod epidemic in the rust belt. Those two states in particular have been hit hardest and Obamacare actually does cover that.
sturg33
I
1. Hate corporate welfare
2. Fine with outsourcing jobs, but free market capitalism would discourage doing so
AerchAngel
<B>Secretary of Statistics</B>
Are they your ancestors, the American Indians that you claim to be and lied about it?
AerchAngel
<B>Secretary of Statistics</B>
Please explain. Indians are horrible at programming, they are like bots, only know one way, like rote, if you throw a wrench into their critical thinking, poof. Case in point, when they answer the phone on helpdesk call, they have rote instructions in what to say and do, thrown them a gremlin and see what happens, it isnt pretty. corporations use them for basic stuff and pay them $4 an hour to do it. What disservice is that to people here in the States when a critical anamoly happens and the bottom line is getting in the way?
Outsourcing should be banned, no exceptions.
sturg33
I
I don't support restricting liberty by telling a business what it can and can't do. I support the right for free labor, just like I support free trade
Oklahomahawk
Boras' Client
But dude, it saves money. Sturg and I actually on quite a few things, way more than most would think, but here's one where we disagree. Anything that makes corporations money is viewed as not only OK but desirable. There are no morals involved only the profit motive. It's OK though there are some people I don't agree with about anything so to agree quite a bit of the time is OK, right?
When corporations start outsources CEO and CFO jobs then I will re-evaluate my position. In the meantime slitting throats for profit is still wrong, was wrong, will be wrong. Wrong does not bring about good things, it brings about death. Making money is a good thing, a necessary thing, but NEVER is it a sacred thing. If you have to break God's laws to make a profit perhaps you're not doing something right. That's my warped twisted view on it anyway.
Oklahomahawk
Boras' Client
You know the ancient Greeks considered the gods or demigods to be something like 20 feet tall and impervious to pain or wounds/death in battle and they held them up as some sort of big time heroes for fighting in battles with mortals. That's what we're doing today. We hold millionaires and billionaires up as heroes and role models with no question or doubt of their origins, their methods, or their techniques as long as they make more and more profits. Do minimum wage or lower end employees really have all the same opportunities that the top 5% have? Is Bob the floor sweeper put on a pedestal because he did a great job today? What about Bob the CEO? He can eff up the company he's the CEO of, overdrive production, even cook the books if necessary to make his company to make things look better than they really are, use those fake numbers to go from one golden parachute to another and leave his old company to crash and burn while he lives it up with his new millions, no matter how many lives he ruined in getting there.
You believe in free market economics? So do I in theory, but NONE of those things work in the real world. If it were not for the human element, pure communism would work, pure capitalism would work, even socialism would work, but in the real world none of those things will work because of the human element, Bedell would call it human nature or man's sinful nature. Once it's introduced all bets are off. Once corporate welfare has been introduced none of those other rules mean anything. Once a CEO can make more millions by sending American jobs to other countries the whole system is fooked, right along with those families their greed ruined. There's absolutely nothing wrong with making profits, big profits, even obscene profits, but when making those profits comes by sacrificing morals and ethics, even if the CEO doesn't recognize or abide by them, he has opened the Pandora's box of sin into his company, not that he cares.
You and thethe were talking about earlier about how Liberalism uses force and that will be the end of America (I'm mixing your conversations I realize that). Well I disagree, liberalism is not a cause it's an effect, just like labor unions. Managers and owners were greedy, brutal, cruel, heartless bastards who treated their people like material possessions, and unions were a response to that. Communism was another. I really don't care for either of those things but had managers and owners lived their lives by God's word and rules/laws unions, communism, etc., would never have existed. I wonder if the spoiled brat nobles and clergy of France who pissed and moaned like a spoiled 4 year old who didn't get the toy he wanted in Wal Mart (and don't get me started on them) instead of fixing France's economy by accepting a very modest land tax in 1788 wished they had taken a different approach when they were wheeled through the streets of Paris in a donkey cart and pelted with rotten vegetables, on their way to the guillotine. Yes those who executed them were hardly proponents of free market capitalism, they were simply fed up with being screwed by a perverted form of it. As the British told the Germans regarding the bombing of cities during WW2, "you sow the wind, you reap the whirlwind". I hate to see my country coming to that, but that's where we're headed. The people of this country WILL get tired of being duped and screwed, and used, and cast aside and when that day comes, God help us all. They won't be that picky about their targets I'm afraid.
Yes, the Greeks picked their literary heroes in a very questionable fashion, IMO. Sadly so do we.
sturg33
I
Also - I don't know how many times this needs to be said or explained. But the US is NOT free market capitalism.
The bigger the government, the more corruption, and richer the rich get.
And yet somehow, liberals find a way to blame it on capitalism and beg for the government to save us - which compounds the problem (see: Healthcare)
The bigger the government, the more corruption, and richer the rich get.
And yet somehow, liberals find a way to blame it on capitalism and beg for the government to save us - which compounds the problem (see: Healthcare)