Another ace pitcher goes out
- Thread starter rico43
- Start date
bravesnumberone
Well-known member
It ends when we stop having teenagers and pre-teens without fully developed ligaments playing year-round baseball every weekend and throwing 200 and 300 pitches a weekend. Maybe it doesn't end, but that's a big part of it.
tvsportscaster
Approaching Buddy Hernandez Territory
He actually left the game with a 4-0 lead, he was throwing a shutout. His reliever came in and gave up three runs.
VirginiaBrave
Well-known member
There is a reason for football and basketball season. There are only so many pitches in an arm.
Tapate50
Well-known member
Probably not til the end of the season, and then it will probably start up again next spring.
KB21
Where's My Cup of Coffee?
The American Sports Medicine Institute released a statement on this.
http://www.asmi.org/research.php?page=research§ion=TJpositionstatement
The problem is too much competitive pitching and too much pitching with fatigue. If a young pitcher has thrown 25+ pitches in an inning, he needs to be taken out of the game because a half inning is not enough time to fully recover from that.
Pitchers need to do more throwing on the side and less full effort pitching.
http://www.asmi.org/research.php?page=research§ion=TJpositionstatement
The problem is too much competitive pitching and too much pitching with fatigue. If a young pitcher has thrown 25+ pitches in an inning, he needs to be taken out of the game because a half inning is not enough time to fully recover from that.
Pitchers need to do more throwing on the side and less full effort pitching.
nsacpi
Expects Yuge Games
I suspect a clue could be found in the rising strikeout rate. It is not straightforward. Some of the increase in strikeouts reflects changes in approach by hitters. But some of it reflects a change in a approach by pitchers. Going for the swing and miss requires a higher intensity of effort and different pitch selection than trying to induce weak contact.
Another thought that occurs to me is that different types of pitches cause different kinds of injuries. During the heyday of the splitter, there seemed to be more shoulder injuries. In the current era, it seems the pitches du jour are the cutter and slider. I'm wondering if those on these boards who have pitched and thrown those types of pitches would agree that the splitter puts more stress on the shoulder while the cutter and slider put more stress on the elbow and forearm.
Another thought that occurs to me is that different types of pitches cause different kinds of injuries. During the heyday of the splitter, there seemed to be more shoulder injuries. In the current era, it seems the pitches du jour are the cutter and slider. I'm wondering if those on these boards who have pitched and thrown those types of pitches would agree that the splitter puts more stress on the shoulder while the cutter and slider put more stress on the elbow and forearm.
If there is a problem and it's not just coincidence, you are probably on to something. But, what do you do? Ask pitchers to pitch to contact and become less effective? Sign groundball pitchers?
nsacpi
Expects Yuge Games
It might be that from a cost-benefit perspective the higher attrition rate is acceptable. In which case you keep doing what you are currently doing, with the emphasis on getting more strikeouts.
KB21
Where's My Cup of Coffee?
I don't think it is so much pitch selection as it is the effort you are using to throw the pitch. If you are throwing with good mechanics, you shouldn't be exceeding any torque threshold for the ligaments in the elbow and tendons in the shoulder. These ligaments and tendons were made to handle only so much stress though before they become worn out.
Think back to the days of Maddux and Glavine. Neither were max effort guys on the mound. They varied their speeds and kept hitters guessing. They would throw complete games and throw only 90-100 pitches.
My personal feeling is that you have to look at what was done at a younger age. These days, with travel ball, I think young pitchers are throwing with max effort entirely too much. They do it though to get noticed by the scouts, and they are also pitching to the radar gun. There has been a big emphasis, even with the Braves lately, on getting guys that are power pitchers that can throw in the mid 90s.
Think back to the days of Maddux and Glavine. Neither were max effort guys on the mound. They varied their speeds and kept hitters guessing. They would throw complete games and throw only 90-100 pitches.
My personal feeling is that you have to look at what was done at a younger age. These days, with travel ball, I think young pitchers are throwing with max effort entirely too much. They do it though to get noticed by the scouts, and they are also pitching to the radar gun. There has been a big emphasis, even with the Braves lately, on getting guys that are power pitchers that can throw in the mid 90s.
50PoundHead
Hessmania Forever
The game has changed so much in my lifetime. I can remember when the MLB average fastball was around 85 mph. Guys routinely pitched to contact because the hitters weren't spending the entire off-season in the weight room. I think the advances in hitting instruction and physical training that has increased applicable kinetic strength by hitters have put the onus on the pitchers to try and blow it by the hitters. What used to be routine flyball outs to OFs are now in the seats. That has made the strikeout more important.
If they truly want to save pitchers, call the high strike.
If they truly want to save pitchers, call the high strike.
nsacpi
Expects Yuge Games
The ironic thing is that the increase in hitter power (as measured by say home run rates) has tapered off quite a bit. I'm sure this reflects a combination of things, including the PED testing program and the change in approach by pitchers. In some ways, today's game is no longer the power game it was 10 or 15 years ago. But we are still seeing the reverberations from the steroids era in the form of this new approach by pitchers.
One thing that puzzles me a bit is that hitters still swing for the fences and have largely abandoned situational hitting as if we are still in a power hitters era. I'm waiting for the pendulum to swing back. It would seem to me that there is more room in the current game for old fashioned contact hitters. Maybe we'll see a return to that the next few years.
50PoundHead
Hessmania Forever
I think the stathead movement has had an efffect. K's don't matter argument.
I was discussing this the other day, I remember back in the early 90s when a 90+ mph fastball was a rare thing, today if you are not throwing 90+ you are not on a MLB team it seems.
50PoundHead
Hessmania Forever
True. Definition of value has changed.