Another School Shooting

I have given it some thought but will come up with a short list for ya but i am open to radical ideas on the topic as well (ie the 2nd amendment is outdated type idea)

been a very long day and the next couple are going to be real busy as well

and if prayer is a part or big part of the plan then we might as well do nothing at all.

cause in that context, prayer will do nothing for it since it is from free will for someone to pick up a gun and kill someone.

if you want to go that type of biblical text
 
It's not just about guns though -- it's an entire culture of violence. The state of nature in its current form is inherently destructive. It doesn't feel to me like that is something you can just expunge without Goebbels like desensitization. Regulations are speed bumps to an ultimate eund. People will figure out a way to inflict pain -- and that goes well above anything I am able to comprehend. That's not to say we shouldn't try to 'fix' this ... epidemic, however I think the more prudent route is simply accepting the realities of the modern world and learning how to guard, cope, survive.
 
There have been 34 school shootings since Newtown.
Thirty Four
I suppose after every one there were group prayers - plus solitary prayer for both victims and the perpetrators
And two weeks after every shooting - there was another shooting.

Granted, we live in a violent culture - Granted there is mental illness, though conveniently ignored legislatively by those that argue against weapon regulation and lay this epidemic at the feet of mental illness.
All of those components have been talked to death but there IS one constant in all of these shootings.
Easy access to weapons and ammunition
We can fix that with a stroke of a pen. the others -- I agree will take time
Time seems to be running out though -- doesn't it?
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34 school shootings.
34
 
Suppose we quit denying our problems and spend a little more time looking at the the past 20 year model of Australia

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Hello! Is anyone at home? This was a shotgun. A shotgun. I give you concrete steps, and you come back again, fixated again, on banning assault weapons. Fine ban assault weapons. That would have made no impact on this. Come right out and say, ban all weapons and ammunition.

And once again you basically dismiss everything else. What ever changes with you 57?

And mock prayer all you'd like...
 
I said weapons.
In my view, any firearm that kills an innocent is a weapon

Never said ban anything

And didn't mock prayer.

Didn't dismiss any of your "concrete steps". Thought a number of them were spot on
.

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Excuse me - in Australia they banned assault weapons and I suggested we use Australia as a model where, they pro-actively addressed the problem
 
Oh, despite Australia's efforts, they haven't been able to totally keep guns out of their schools. See this incident. And there was the Monash University shooting. And bombs at another school. Also, please remember they have less than 10,000 schools and the U.S. has around 100,000.
 
Address the problem pro-actively rather the around the elbow to get to your ass approach of thinking prayer and counseling will solve the problem Until we deal with those that made money from selling the Colorado shooter the shotgun and the shells we will continue down the same road.

In a nut shell - the political courage to stand up to the gun lobby and weapon profiteers.
the public courage to vote for people that will stand up
 
Oh, despite Australia's efforts, they haven't been able to totally keep guns out of their schools. See this incident. And there was the Monash University shooting. And bombs at another school. Also, please remember they have less than 10,000 schools and the U.S. has around 100,000.

Letting the perfect be the enemy of the good - is a huge part of the problem - in my view.
Actually seems to be a common thread through so many of our political / social discussions. ACA is lousy because it isn't Medicare for all. Would be another example
 
The American issue with guns goes much deeper than people having access to them. Our culture breeds these maniacs. The fear, the consumerism, etc. make people do things they wouldn't do otherwise. Canada doesn't have a shooting provlem on the level of the US but they don't ban guns.
 
Letting the perfect be the enemy of the good - is a huge part of the problem - in my view.
Actually seems to be a common thread through so many of our political / social discussions. ACA is lousy because it isn't Medicare for all. Would be another example

Thats a perfectly good reason ACA is lousy.
 
Address the problem pro-actively rather the around the elbow to get to your ass approach of thinking prayer and counseling will solve the problem Until we deal with those that made money from selling the Colorado shooter the shotgun and the shells we will continue down the same road.

In a nut shell - the political courage to stand up to the gun lobby and weapon profiteers.
the public courage to vote for people that will stand up

Okay. So what exactly are you proposing? Specifics please. I've given them to you. You mock. How do you "deal with those who made money" selling a shotgun and shotgun shells legally? How do you stand up against that evil shotgun lobby? Surely, you've got something more than your usual unhelpful rhetoric.

What's interesting to me is that I offer prayer and counseling as two options (actually items that aim at heart issues and not merely externals) in a list of 9 and you act as if those are the only two things I mention and then you won't give us any specifics of your own. Why?
 
Letting the perfect be the enemy of the good - is a huge part of the problem - in my view.
Actually seems to be a common thread through so many of our political / social discussions. ACA is lousy because it isn't Medicare for all. Would be another example

Who is letting the perfect be an enemy of the good? You throw out a meme, apply it to a shooting where 1 innocent person dies, and so I then show you how you really can't apply that meme in the same way to Australia, and you then turn that into evidence that I'm letting the perfect be an enemy of the good. I'm scratching my head on that one 57. Help me out.
 
The American issue with guns goes much deeper than people having access to them. Our culture breeds these maniacs. The fear, the consumerism, etc. make people do things they wouldn't do otherwise. Canada doesn't have a shooting provlem on the level of the US but they don't ban guns.

Well put Z.
 
my statement wasn't mocking prayer

unless the Bibles you and I have read are different

I didn't think you did gold. That statement was directed to 57. I should have specified. You just don't see how prayer could be a factor and that's understandable, recognizing that we don't share the same theologies.
 
Okay. So what exactly are you proposing? Specifics please. I've given them to you. You mock. How do you "deal with those who made money" selling a shotgun and shotgun shells legally? How do you stand up against that evil shotgun lobby? Surely, you've got something more than your usual unhelpful rhetoric.

What's interesting to me is that I offer prayer and counseling as two options (actually items that aim at heart issues and not merely externals) in a list of 9 and you act as if those are the only two things I mention and then you won't give us any specifics of your own. Why?

Much the same as we dealt with the tobacco companies and the illness' associated with smoking.
A pack of cigarettes is what now, $5.00?
the University I work at will be Tobacco Free after the first of the year. Without so much as a complaining letter to the editor

Extensive background checks and not just a 3 -10 day waiting period shoot make it a month.

I'm ready to be flamed but tax to high heaven nnot only the firearms but the ammunition - use those funds to pay for gun safety programs

Hold the munitions industry legally accountable for gun related deaths. Inner city and suburban

Fund mental health diagnosis and treatment

Firearms training in the schools. Teach our kids that yeah there is a place for firearms in our culture but educate and train them on the proper use and danger.
Take away the mystique

Address poverty in inner cities. I mean, seriously address poverty in our inner cities in a way that will meaning fully face down gang culture

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As far as the comment of perfect being ... I mean that. you offered the example that Australia still has incidents -- but not the type of incidents we see here or with the regularity. Just because thre is no magic bean that will solve all of this doesn't mean we can't begin doing something
This will not be solved overnight but ---- we have to start somewhere or more importantly some time.

I asked earlier and never got an answer -- would you go out of your way to support a candidate that was willing to take a stand for something as simple as mandatory background checks?
 
1. Much the same as we dealt with the tobacco companies and the illness' associated with smoking.
A pack of cigarettes is what now, $5.00?
the University I work at will be Tobacco Free after the first of the year. Without so much as a complaining letter to the editor

2. Extensive background checks and not just a 3 -10 day waiting period shoot make it a month.

3. I'm ready to be flamed but tax to high heaven nnot only the firearms but the ammunition - use those funds to pay for gun safety programs

4. Hold the munitions industry legally accountable for gun related deaths. Inner city and suburban

5. Fund mental health diagnosis and treatment

6. Firearms training in the schools. Teach our kids that yeah there is a place for firearms in our culture but educate and train them on the proper use and danger.
Take away the mystique

7. Address poverty in inner cities. I mean, seriously address poverty in our inner cities in a way that will meaning fully face down gang culture

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8. As far as the comment of perfect being ... I mean that. you offered the example that Australia still has incidents -- but not the type of incidents we see here or with the regularity. Just because thre is no magic bean that will solve all of this doesn't mean we can't begin doing something
This will not be solved overnight but ---- we have to start somewhere or more importantly some time.

9. I asked earlier and never got an answer -- would you go out of your way to support a candidate that was willing to take a stand for something as simple as mandatory background checks?

First, thanks for offering specific ideas.

1. Basically we are suggesting the same thing. My difference (I suppose) is suggesting a progressive scale on the tax rate based on the lethalness of the weapon. You difference is taxing ammo as well. I'm not sure I'd go there - hey but that's the political discussion process.

2. As I've noted before, I am not opposed to background checks and a month wait, I could live with, though I'd think 2 weeks is sufficient and not punitive (a month seems punitive).

3. See my 1 above.

4. That dog won't hunt. I wouldn't push for that. And would suggest that if the gun-control crowd does, you proverbially shoot yourself in the foot. It would open Pandora's box and if applied equally, would have to be aimed at the manufacturer of any item or substance if that substance or item was intentionally used in the attempted murder of anybody.

5. Ok. (Your version of my prayer and counseling sort of ideas). What about psychotropic drug prescriptions being flagged in background checks? I mean with ACA Government will have that info, won't they? Or could easily enough.

6. Or train more killers. I'd prefer shooting course completion to purchase a lethal weapon.

7. Ok (again your version of my prayer and counseling points).

How about a sin tax on the video, music, tv, and movie industry? Or do they get a free pass?

8. I am not fond of simplified memes like that, particularly when they give false impressions. My earlier posts have shown clear enough, that I wasn't advocating doing nothing, or letting the perfect get in the way of the good, or that I thought there's a magic bean. Quite the contrary.

9. Being okay with background checks (despite not having as high a view of the goodness of fallen human beings once they wear a government hat), I'm okay with supporting a candidate that does. No problem.
 
A couple of cops in every school would probably have a significant impact. Why not do something like this that could actually solve the problem and get done.

MOAR COPS.

MOAR GUNS.

Just like how you treat an AIDS patient by shooting 'em all up with HIV.

(Edit: And to be clarion: I'm not necessarily arguing the opposite of this MOAR COPS / MORE GUNS impulse is panacea, I just can't process why there is always such a knee-jerk in certain circles to double-down on weapons availability and institutionalized violence whenever something horrible and violent happens in this nation.)
 
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