Around Baseball 2015 Edition

thethe said:
Based on what I've seen this year I'm not trading Shelby Miller.
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Other than being a Braves homer, why?

He's been great but if you look at the numbers and schedule he's faced...it's obvious he's pitching over his head. The numbers suggest he's coming to regress to a 3.4-3.7 ERA guy, K Rate should stay the same, his BABIP is historically low and not sustainable.....I mean, if someone is going to pay you on this version of Shelby, I don't see why you wouldn't do it. He's not this guy.

And this isn't me hating.....just go look at the numbers and schedule....anyone that doesn't admit a big regression is coming then you're blind.
 
BRule said:
Other than being a Braves homer, why?

He's been great but if you look at the numbers and schedule he's faced...it's obvious he's pitching over his head. The numbers suggest he's coming to regress to a 3.4-3.7 ERA guy, K Rate should stay the same, his BABIP is historically low and not sustainable.....I mean, if someone is going to pay you on this version of Shelby, I don't see why you wouldn't do it. He's not this guy.

And this isn't me hating.....just go look at the numbers and schedule....anyone that doesn't admit a big regression is coming then you're blind.
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I've seen all the numbers but I've also seen him pitch which I doubt you have.

You take your numbers and your Braves hatred and do whatever you want. I'm keeping Shelby Miller.
 
BRule said:
Other than being a Braves homer, why?

He's been great but if you look at the numbers and schedule he's faced...it's obvious he's pitching over his head. The numbers suggest he's coming to regress to a 3.4-3.7 ERA guy, K Rate should stay the same, his BABIP is historically low and not sustainable.....I mean, if someone is going to pay you on this version of Shelby, I don't see why you wouldn't do it. He's not this guy.

And this isn't me hating.....just go look at the numbers and schedule....anyone that doesn't admit a big regression is coming then you're blind.
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Any player minus Trout, Felix, Kershaw, etc is tradeable.

But i doubt they'd get proper value for him.

Pretty much everyone knows he'll regress but he's been legit this year obviously he wont have a sub-2 ERA, but read this.

http://www.si.com/fantasy/2015/05/12/pitcher-report-shelby-miller-atlanta-braves-st-louis-cardinals

The added cutter has helped him take the next step so far.
 
thethe said:
That is not going to be a trade available to us so it seems foolish for me to respond. Would I trade Miller for Trout? Obviously, but any realistic trade is not one I would make.
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Well it could be. Assuming Toronto sucks and continues their insane attempts to find something that works for a rebuild decide to do it by pitching (Toronto currently has the WORST starting pitching in baseball by a country mile) Miller is under control for 1 more year than Donaldson.

Or how aobut this, they go semi rebuild, Miller, Bethancourt, and Jace for Donaldson and Joey Bats.

Bautista is only under contract for 1 more year so he'd be a rental, but a damned fine rental. We just solved most of our issues offensively, Toronto gets pitching they desperately need.

CF - Maybin
SS - Tron
1B - Freddie
LF - Joey Bats
3B - Donaldson
RF - Markakis
C - Wieters
2B - Peraza

Rotation
Wood
Julio
Folty
ManBan
Hursh

Or a number of other options of course. We weaken our rotation but massively improve our lineup.
 
Zito, I'm a believe in always having more in the tank on the farm. Trading someone like Jace who is cost controlled for 5 more years is a big no-no for me. I love Donaldson for sure but I just don't believe you need that type of hitter to win. I think you need pitching and timely hitting to go along with defense. Yes, I understand that Donaldson is a good defender. I just don't think trading a potential #1 is a smart move.
 
thethe said:
I've seen all the numbers but I've also seen him pitch which I doubt you have.

You take your numbers and your Braves hatred and do whatever you want. I'm keeping Shelby Miller.
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LOL......there it is! I say we should sell high on someone who's obviously pitching over their head and I'm a Braves hater who doesn't watch games! wooooooooooooooooo

Again, I'm not saying trade Miller for Dominic Brown but if I can get Lucroy, Brantley, Kipnis, Adam Jones, Frazier, Donaldson, etc....those types of proven middle of the order hitters. I'm trading Shelby Miller, who's going to end up being a solid #3 starter but his value will never be as high as it is right now.
 
BRule said:
LOL......there it is! I say we should sell high on someone who's obviously pitching over their head and I'm a Braves hater who doesn't watch games! wooooooooooooooooo

Again, I'm not saying trade Miller for Dominic Brown but if I can get Lucroy, Brantley, Kipnis, Adam Jones, Frazier, Donaldson, etc....those types of proven middle of the order hitters. I'm trading Shelby Miller, who's going to end up being a solid #3 starter but his value will never be as high as it is right now.
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I'm confident that you aren't watching the Braves play. I know your style. You love to just troll people which is fine. I'm sure you are a cool person in RL and still buy you a beer at a NY baseball game.

And of course you KNOW he is going to be a #3 starter. Based on what we've seen so far I think he has #1 starter potential. Doesn't mean he is going to get there but I'm taking my chances.
 
thethe said:
And of course you KNOW he is going to be a #3 starter. Based on what we've seen so far I think he has #1 starter potential. Doesn't mean he is going to get there but I'm taking my chances.
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No one knows anything.....but if I have a gun to my head and all the numbers and tape in front of me....I'm betting on Shelby being a solid #3 and not an ace.
 
thethe said:
Zito, I'm a believe in always having more in the tank on the farm. Trading someone like Jace who is cost controlled for 5 more years is a big no-no for me. I love Donaldson for sure but I just don't believe you need that type of hitter to win. I think you need pitching and timely hitting to go along with defense. Yes, I understand that Donaldson is a good defender. I just don't think trading a potential #1 is a smart move.
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Caling Josh DOnaldson a good defender is like saying Freddie is a good hitter.

Donaldson has been the best 3B in all of baseball since coming into the league full time, and the 3rd best overall player in baseball behind Trout and Cutch. He hits and he fields and he would be under team control until after 2018. Only player I'd maybe consider over him Matt Carpenter because he's potentially under control for 2 more years. THough I prefer the arby flexibility of Donaldson.

I would 100% trade a number 1 for Donaldson. I'd trade anyone not name Freddie or Simmons for him. Even then I'd heavily consider it.
 
zitothebrave said:
Caling Josh DOnaldson a good defender is like saying Freddie is a good hitter.

Donaldson has been the best 3B in all of baseball since coming into the league full time, and the 3rd best overall player in baseball behind Trout and Cutch. He hits and he fields and he would be under team control until after 2018. Only player I'd maybe consider over him Matt Carpenter because he's potentially under control for 2 more years. THough I prefer the arby flexibility of Donaldson.

I would 100% trade a number 1 for Donaldson. I'd trade anyone not name Freddie or Simmons for him. Even then I'd heavily consider it.
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I want to win a world series and a #1 pitcher means a hell of a lot more than a everyday player in that situation.
 
thethe said:
Trading someone like Jace who is cost controlled for 5 more years is a big no-no for me.
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I am not trading Jace Peterson because I like him and I want hard working likable players on my team. He might only end up a utility or platoon player but he can play enough positions to play a lot either way (sorta like Prado or Infante in the past). It isn't just all about numbers building a team, if you give me a team that wins full of AJ's, Braun's and other players I don't like. Then quite frankly you'll lose me as a fan eventually. Further, I still find it a complete joke calling AJ a leader. Gomes is a leader, AJ is just a veteran.
 
thethe said:
I want to win a world series and a #1 pitcher means a hell of a lot more than a everyday player in that situation.
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And what if Miller reverts to his old self? He's been great so far, even ignoring his peripheral issues he is on pace for a 4 fWAR season, something we haven't seen in atlanta since 2010 in Tommy Hanson. There's a lot to be excited about. But you have to detach yourself from that excitement and get rational. Miller is a high risk players as a pitcher. I'm not even gonna get into the potential over pronation issues he has shown in the past that will likely lead to shoulder issues. Ignoring that. Just the fact that he's a pitcher, and we know as Braves fans there's a very good chance a pitcher will need Tommy John surgery. We've seen it hit our guys and some of the best guys on other teams. It happens a lot in baseball. And because of that with Miller ther'es a risk one of the years we'll have him, we'll be paying him for rehabbing.
 
thethe said:
I've seen all the numbers but I've also seen him pitch which I doubt you have.

You take your numbers and your Braves hatred and do whatever you want. I'm keeping Shelby Miller.
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I talk with BRule a lot during the games. He watches most of them.
 
BTW, I'd love to have Josh Donaldson but I just don't see Toronto trading him. I don't think you get him straight up for Miller whether I'd do it or not. So it isn't worth a long debate IMO.
 
Braves1976 said:
BTW, I'd love to have Josh Donaldson but I just don't see Toronto trading him. I don't think you get him straight up for Miller whether I'd do it or not. So it isn't worth a long debate IMO.
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I agree. I'm just using it as something that I was hoping would make clear that Miller is tradeable instead it seemingly makes thethe look crazy for not wanting what would litereally be what we need in a position player. A right handed power hitting 3B.
 
zitothebrave said:
I agree. I'm just using it as something that I was hoping would make clear that Miller is tradeable instead it seemingly makes thethe look crazy for not wanting what would litereally be what we need in a position player. A right handed power hitting 3B.
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I'd call Cincy yesterday and offer Shelby for Frazier. Not sure they'd do it but they need pitching badly.
 
zitothebrave said:
I agree. I'm just using it as something that I was hoping would make clear that Miller is tradeable instead it seemingly makes thethe look crazy for not wanting what would litereally be what we need in a position player. A right handed power hitting 3B.
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OK, I guess I just prefer to debate more realistic trades. If y'all want to have at it over this that's cool. Just sharing my view is all.
 
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