Around the League: 2017 offseason edition / 2018 Season

Heyward said:
Unless Philly put Hoskins, Nola, and Sixto on the table, they have nothing to offer.

And Newk, Ender, Riley, Touki, Anderson, and Wright is ****ing absurd.
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No it isn't. Mike Trout is the best player of this generation.

Look at Mike Trout's top comps according to B-Ref. Through 25,

1. Frank Robinson
2. Ken Griffey Jr.
3. Mickey Mantle
4. Hank Aaron
5. Miguel Cabrera
6. Orlando Cepeda
7. Mel Ott
8. Eddie Matthews
9. Andruw Jones
10. Albert Pujols

That list is 7 current Hall of Famers. 2 stars right now who are virtual locks for the Hall of Fame and one should be hall of famer in Andruw.

Top comps by age season aside from first season where he barely played are Robinson, Mantle, Mantle, Mantle, Robinson. Meaning he'll probably end up somewhere between Griffey, Robinson, and Mantle, It's basically a lock to get 4-6 years of the best play in baseball. Odds are over the next 4 years Trout is worth 35-40 WAR. What are the odds those guys wind up being worth that? Decent but not quite amazing.
 
Horsehide Harry said:
Why trade for Trout when Harper would only cost you money?

Trout is the best player in the game hands down BUT you could get one of the ten best without giving up any talent at a similar AAV.

I don't see it.

Now, if Liberty would start acting like Atlanta is a large market (which it is - 2017 Census estimate had Atlanta MSA as 9th biggest in US, just behind Philly, Miami and DC and that doesn't include other nearby MSA with no ML team that is predominately Braves territory like Charlotte (#22), Nashville (#36), Raleigh (#43), Birmingham (#49), Greenville (#61), Knoxville (#64), Charleston (#74), Greensboro (#75) etc. and that assumes no market in Florida) and loosening the payroll, then sign Harper AND trade for Trout but yo have to be ready to spend on FA pitching as well which means that you're pretty quickly at a $175-$200M payroll.

But that's not going to happen.

IF the Angels decide to trade Trout (and they really should) they should be looking for high end young talent with little to no ML service time. From the Braves probably six guys from this list (Albies, Swanson, Camargo, Riley, Pache, Touki, Wright, Wilson, Newk, Soroka, Anderson, Gohara, Waters, Contreras, etc.) Let's say: Trout and Simmons for Albies, Swanson, Riley, Pache, Touki, Wright and Anderson

That would sting no doubt and put the Braves on an absolute win-now path. And it would be a huge chance to take.

Your 2019 rotation remains: Folty, Newk, Gausman, Teheran with the 5th spot being a veteran or one of Soroka, Gohara or Wilson
The pen is unaffected for 2019.

You trade Inciarte for best available to lose his salary and pick up some long term talent.

LF - Acuna
2B - Culberson
CF - Trout
1B - Freeman
3B - Camargo (if Liberty is serious about money then maybe you go Donaldson on a short contract)
RF - ? (again, if Liberty miraculously becomes run by the ghost of George Steinbrenner then maybe you make a play for Harper with opt-outs, if not then you're looking at Duvall)
SS - Simmons
C - Flowers & Suzuki again

It could be done (not likely the Harper part) and stay within the realm of realistic payroll for 2019. And, you wouldn't necessarily lose all your future. There would be a significant chance that you would be giving up at least one long term star in the deal, if not multiple long term stars.

I wouldn't do it. But, I've long pushed for patience and forecasting the window for 2020 and beyond. The Braves are competitive today, the window is open now regardless of whether now is the best time or not. So, I could see those who are more short term vision saying go for it...
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Agreed.... I'd sign Harper all day long before doing something dumb like trading for Trout
 
zitothebrave said:
No it isn't. Mike Trout is the best player of this generation.

Look at Mike Trout's top comps according to B-Ref. Through 25,

1. Frank Robinson
2. Ken Griffey Jr.
3. Mickey Mantle
4. Hank Aaron
5. Miguel Cabrera
6. Orlando Cepeda
7. Mel Ott
8. Eddie Matthews
9. Andruw Jones
10. Albert Pujols

That list is 7 current Hall of Famers. 2 stars right now who are virtual locks for the Hall of Fame and one should be hall of famer in Andruw.

Top comps by age season aside from first season where he barely played are Robinson, Mantle, Mantle, Mantle, Robinson. Meaning he'll probably end up somewhere between Griffey, Robinson, and Mantle, It's basically a lock to get 4-6 years of the best play in baseball. Odds are over the next 4 years Trout is worth 35-40 WAR. What are the odds those guys wind up being worth that? Decent but not quite amazing.
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And even if their totals equaled that, the package is still much less valuable than Trout because getting 10 WAR from one player is infinitely more valuable than getting 10 WAR from 4-5 players.
 
Tapate50 said:
Today,

And they are playing Santana at third, Cabrera at SS, and Bour at first.

Over/under = 2 errors?
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Man that defense is awful. The Phillies are a solid team with lots of money and an obviously bright future that scares me, but man they have to address defense in the offseason. And I'm not sure how they plan to do it. They have 3 players who should be playing first base and a couple others playing up the middle who are corners at best. I'm glad the Braves made defense part of their plan in the rebuild, because we have seen first hand what poor defense can do to an otherwise successful season.
 
BeanieAntics said:
Man that defense is awful. The Phillies are a solid team with lots of money and an obviously bright future that scares me, but man they have to address defense in the offseason. And I'm not sure how they plan to do it. They have 3 players who should be playing first base and a couple others playing up the middle who are corners at best. I'm glad the Braves made defense part of their plan in the rebuild, because we have seen first hand what poor defense can do to an otherwise successful season.
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Actually check that, they have 4 players who should be 1st basemen. I forgot about Maikel Franco.
 
BeanieAntics said:
Man that defense is awful. The Phillies are a solid team with lots of money and an obviously bright future that scares me, but man they have to address defense in the offseason. And I'm not sure how they plan to do it. They have 3 players who should be playing first base and a couple others playing up the middle who are corners at best. I'm glad the Braves made defense part of their plan in the rebuild, because we have seen first hand what poor defense can do to an otherwise successful season.
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besides money, why are they so scary in the future? hoskins is solid but not really a stud. kingery's future projections have to be way down. herrera is also just solid. they don't have a stud position player in the majors or the minors. their best prospect is a pitcher in high-A. their pitching is good and fairly young, but has also remained incredibly healthy this year. they don't have any kind of depth there whatsoever. and they're still paying arrieta (and santana, for that matter) for another 2 years, at $25M and $20M respectively.

of course, money can help some (a lot?) of this. but really, how much? i guess we'll see.
 
Super said:
besides money, why are they so scary in the future? hoskins is solid but not really a stud. kingery's future projections have to be way down. herrera is also just solid. they don't have a stud position player in the majors or the minors. their best prospect is a pitcher in high-A. their pitching is good and fairly young, but has also remained incredibly healthy this year. they don't have any kind of depth there whatsoever. and they're still paying arrieta (and santana, for that matter) for another 2 years, at $25M and $20M respectively.

of course, money can help some (a lot?) of this. but really, how much? i guess we'll see.
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This is my thought too. I would be worried as a faillies fan then be excited. Holes all over the field. LF you have a guy who can hit but can’t play the outfield. CF is a lazy and not so bright player who really declined as the year went on. The fans want him out and Quinn to replace him. RF you have a guy who could do well but sort of spun his wheels this year in Williams. 3rd is a disaster. SS was JP but he flopped hard. 2nd was dingery but he flopped hard. 1st you can take a pick of anyone on the team because they all should play there. Catcher. Jorge and Ramos. We will see. Then you get to the pitching and I don’t see a whole lot. Nola and a bunch of 4 or worse starters. I don’t think there is enough money to fix those problems. Not to mention the pen.
 
I think they did a mediocre job on their rebuild, and I said this during the first series of the season. But with their money, they may be thinking they have just enough where they can fill in the rest via trade and FA. But they need a couple of impact players, which they just don’t have, and those are difficult to acquire. I like Hoskins though.
 
bravesfanMatt said:
This is my thought too. I would be worried as a faillies fan then be excited. Holes all over the field. LF you have a guy who can hit but can’t play the outfield. CF is a lazy and not so bright player who really declined as the year went on. The fans want him out and Quinn to replace him. RF you have a guy who could do well but sort of spun his wheels this year in Williams. 3rd is a disaster. SS was JP but he flopped hard. 2nd was dingery but he flopped hard. 1st you can take a pick of anyone on the team because they all should play there. Catcher. Jorge and Ramos. We will see. Then you get to the pitching and I don’t see a whole lot. Nola and a bunch of 4 or worse starters. I don’t think there is enough money to fix those problems. Not to mention the pen.
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Ramos is a FA after this season, too.
Nick Williams is a 4th OF at best.
Nola is a stud but this is probably his career year. I actually like Pivetta and Velasquez, tho Pivetta has a HR problem. He has good stuff. My issue with their pitching is the depth. there is *none*.
 
our future, IMO, is considerably brighter as they both stand right now. far better farm (still) and IMO a major league team that's a good bit better.
 
Super said:
our future, IMO, is considerably brighter as they both stand right now. far better farm (still) and IMO a major league team that's a good bit better.
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Correct. I would take Acuna and Albies way before I'd take anybody from the Phillies for the future. And Dansby and Camargo are providing just as much value right now as any Phillies position player. They really need both Haseley and Bohm to be very good or else they're going to have trouble putting much of a lineup together for a while.
 
smootness said:
Correct. I would take Acuna and Albies way before I'd take anybody from the Phillies for the future. And Dansby and Camargo are providing just as much value right now as any Phillies position player. They really need both Haseley and Bohm to be very good or else they're going to have trouble putting much of a lineup together for a while.
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i don't think haseley even has the upside to be "very good."
 
smootness said:
And even if their totals equaled that, the package is still much less valuable than Trout because getting 10 WAR from one player is infinitely more valuable than getting 10 WAR from 4-5 players.
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Yup

Honestly the more I think about the proposed trade the more I say **** yeah.

If you have a lineup that consists of Acuna, Albies, Trout, Freeman, Camargo, catchers, Swanson and go find yourself a defense first CF. Leonys Martin probably can be had for pretty cheap, or hell just promote Pache. With Trout in LF that's a plus(maybe plus-plus) defense OF, plus-plus defense IF, and almost certainly 4 guys who're near top of their position offensively and a few interesting options.

The trade stings because of losing Allard and a ton of pitching depth as we'd lose Newcome, Touki, Wright and Anderson, but we'd still have Folty, Gausman, Allard, Gohara, Fried, Wentz, Wilson, Muller, and Tarnok as rated B- or higher by sickels (or in the rotation already obviously with Folty and Gausman) that's still a heck of a pool to pull from. Of course some of them will flame out and suck, but it would make way too much sense to make this move to get Trout the best player in the game.
 
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