Beer

Untapped is like facebook for boozers. Basically a good way to keep track of what people are drinking in a pretty simple 5 star rating system. I utilize it primarily as a tracking system for what I've drank. It's hardly up to date, but it's a good way to look back. I'ts all really fun to do at a beerfest, it's fun to see things go down hill.

Interesting that they did the collaboration that way. I'm used to the ones made the same way, like Saison Du Buff.

I'll have to check out Untapped, when I have a bit more time. For a while, I used BeerAdvocate almost entirely for quick-reference I was prevaricating on what to buy at the beer store, but for the past year or so (and much more assiduously, in the past few months) I've been posting reviews—in part because I've found that when I make myself take notes on a rare, hard-to-find, elusive, or otherwise exclusive beer, I'm much less likely to sit on it for forever and a minute out of respect for its rarefied or ephemeral nature.

And yea: this was a really interesting way to pull off a collaboration, three-way or otherwise. I talked to a Surly brewer at the Savor festival last May in DC, and they were really excited about the process: all three groups of main brewers met up, experimented, composed the recipe; then they all went back to their respective breweries, did their thing on their home-equipment, and packaged in the size and style with which they were most comfortable (glass bomber for 3F, four aluminum 16s for Surly, six aluminum 12s for Real Ale). The distinctiveness of each is a real testament to the delicacy and deliberation of the recipe—but also a good referendum on how important minor details can be in the realization of the end-product, even between top-flight brewers/breweries using the exact same recipe.
 
These breweries are popping up everywhere now, but I haven't been to any. I guess every Joe Blow thinks he can make good beer and run a business.
 

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We see it happen with restaurants, why not breweries?

Restaurants fail at an extremely high rate (25% in just the first year). Im going to guess that will happen with breweries as well. They have an interesting dilemma; try to sell to local restaurants (who you then compete with if you open up for business) or try to stay as a distributor.

People think opening a business is easy. Simply making good beer doesn't mean you can run a successful business.
 
Restaurants fail at an extremely high rate (25% in just the first year). Im going to guess that will happen with breweries as well. They have an interesting dilemma; try to sell to local restaurants (who you then compete with if you open up for business) or try to stay as a distributor.

People think opening a business is easy. Simply making good beer doesn't mean you can run a successful business.

You're correct in that regard, but most of the people opening breweries aren't 20 something kids who homebrewed for a few years. They're people who had other careers, and then decided to ditch them for a brewery. ANd Breweries do fail. We're on a craft bubble now where the market is expanding at a pretty rapid rate and there really is no major brand loyalty in the craft market (like ther eis in the macro market) so there's plenty of space for small guys to step in and deliver the goods. Cause of prohibitive liquor laws in the US they'll never open as often as restaurants so you'll never see the failure rate go that high.

I like the idea of small breweries covering small areas, it adds a charm to an area. For example, you can't get Hill Farmstead outside of a pretty small area of Vermont, same with The Alchemist and it does add a bit of charm to that area. I think the same thing happened with Carton and Kane in NJ. Not everyone needs to become Stone, Victory, Rogue, Bell's, New Belgium, etc. I like the idea of craft staying small and staying weird. I know that the market usually crushes that so I'm enjoying it for as long as humanly possible.
 
You're correct in that regard, but most of the people opening breweries aren't 20 something kids who homebrewed for a few years. They're people who had other careers, and then decided to ditch them for a brewery. ANd Breweries do fail. We're on a craft bubble now where the market is expanding at a pretty rapid rate and there really is no major brand loyalty in the craft market (like ther eis in the macro market) so there's plenty of space for small guys to step in and deliver the goods. Cause of prohibitive liquor laws in the US they'll never open as often as restaurants so you'll never see the failure rate go that high.

I like the idea of small breweries covering small areas, it adds a charm to an area. For example, you can't get Hill Farmstead outside of a pretty small area of Vermont, same with The Alchemist and it does add a bit of charm to that area. I think the same thing happened with Carton and Kane in NJ. Not everyone needs to become Stone, Victory, Rogue, Bell's, New Belgium, etc. I like the idea of craft staying small and staying weird. I know that the market usually crushes that so I'm enjoying it for as long as humanly possible.

But, these breweries are popping up everywhere. Like 5 within a 2 mile stretch near me.

There is one called O Connors, who did it really legit by learning the craft for a long time. He has been in business for a few years now and I'm sure will succeed. (has his beer in restaurants and grocery stores, etc.) Some of these other clowns are "man I made a home brew, now I'm going to open a business!"
 
Some of these other clowns are "man I made a home brew, now I'm going to open a business!"

And those brewers will learn the ropes or learn the hard way that they rushed into commercial brewing. Not sure why this arouses such seemingly-personal animosity out of you. Does one of these tenderfoot brewers owe you money?
 
And those brewers will learn the ropes or learn the hard way that they rushed into commercial brewing. Not sure why this arouses such seemingly-personal animosity out of you. Does one of these tenderfoot brewers owe you money?

Because it's liberal hippies and their damn fancy beers in giles' 'Merica tryna step in on his FREEDOM to drink ****ty beer.
 
I know a lot of people who have homebrewed. Not a single one of them thought, after one beer, that they could open and run a business. Most brewers are much more intelligent than that and realize the difficulty in brewing. Opening and running a brewery is much tougher than opening and running a restaurant. I'm sure some, possibly many, will fail. Many businesses do. Most successful business owners failed at some point. Yeah, I'm not sure where the angst comes from. Who cares? It's just something that giles doesn't understand or care for, therefore he tries to **** on it.
 
Some of these other clowns are "man I made a home brew, now I'm going to open a business!"

And this bothers you because ________________.
And you know that's what happened because __________________________.
I can assure you an amateur brewer who made one home brew is not opening a business.
 
And those brewers will learn the ropes or learn the hard way that they rushed into commercial brewing. Not sure why this arouses such seemingly-personal animosity out of you. Does one of these tenderfoot brewers owe you money?

Why do you assume I have animosity toward any of them?
 

Why does it offend you that someone would question the need for multiple breweries within a short driving distance of each other?

I actually researched investing some money in one of them, but while researching I came to the conclusion that I think they are oversaturating the market and that once the "newness" of the concept dies down, I believe only the most popular ones will be successful. The ones that are distributing on a regional level and moving toward distribution on a national level. You just aren't going to make much money selling 1-2 $6 beers to men getting off work or wanting to pregame before going out.
 
I know one person that started home brewing and has made it a job. Most people do it as a hobby. Those doing it as a hobby aren't opening breweries. Those opening breweries know their **** and are attempting to make it their career through a business. The same way any business owner does things. That's fine that that's your opinion. I'd think every person opening a brewery wishes to, eventually, have their beer nationwide. However, breweries can be very successful not being nationwide (yuengling for example). The more craft beer, the merrier for craft beer drinkers. This thread isn't for miller lite.
 
Why does it offend you that someone would question the need for multiple breweries within a short driving distance of each other?

I actually researched investing some money in one of them, but while researching I came to the conclusion that I think they are oversaturating the market and that once the "newness" of the concept dies down, I believe only the most popular ones will be successful. The ones that are distributing on a regional level and moving toward distribution on a national level. You just aren't going to make much money selling 1-2 $6 beers to men getting off work or wanting to pregame before going out.

I'm not at all offended, and you're welcome to your opinions—I just noted that it seemed like some personal grievance animated your comments on all these "breweries [...] popping up everywhere now," which—even though you "haven't been to any"—you believe are mostly run by "clowns" who "made [one] home brew" then decided they were ready for commercial production.

As for over-saturation: it depends on the geography of the market. I've been to plenty of larger towns and small-to-medium-sized cities that are packed with breweries, and others that boast a token single operation and couldn't certainly stomach a few more, for variety's sake; likewise, I don't think Chicago's nearly at critical-mass yet—especially since two of the very best of the area's breweries (Three Floyds, in Muenster, IN; Two Brothers, out in DuPage County) are in the suburbs—but there is definitely also plenty of chaff that has sprung up alongside the wheat, hoping to cash-in on the novelty but lacking the cachet and brewing chops to really persist outside of the current bubble.

I also think there definitely is a very real and profitable place for smaller breweries "selling 1-2 $6 beers to men getting off work or wanting to pregame before going out"; though those places usually also offer growler-fills, and may distribute locally and to a limited extent (filled growlers in local groceries, or small batch bomber-bottling, as regional statutes permit), they exist primarily to serve their town and/or base of loyal clientele—and that's a really damn cool thing, as zito alluded, especially since sometimes these purely-local brewers are pretty damn great at what they do. There's charm in it, and—believe it or not—people will pay for charm (and not just hipsters).

In the end, a lot of this will sort itself out in the next decade; beyond just talk of "bubbles" and "bursting", there's the added pressue macro-breweries are placing on the industry by campaigning against the "affect" of drinking craft (cf. Budweiser's Super Bowl commercial) while simultaneously buying up some of the larger craft breweries to strategically poach different markets. If you know beer, and know your area, however, you should be able to invest in some good bets—but if broadening your investment portfolio is your primary motivation in approaching well-made beer, I'm guessing you'd struggle mightily with the first stipulation, in which case all bets are off.
 
I'd think every person opening a brewery wishes to, eventually, have their beer nationwide.

You might think so, but I honestly think some head-brewers are entirely content with staying regional, if not purely local.

I had a chance to talk with the head dude at Odell for about five minutes last year, and when I mentioned I hoped they move into Illinois soon (they distribute to a couple neighboring states to the west), he told me in no uncertain terms that he wasn't interested in expanding their distribution. He also reminded me of this guy:

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Now plans change, of course, and he's just one individual amongst multiple making decisions for Odell; but I don't think we should discount that some of these brewers are so detail-oriented and quality-obsessed that they are happy keeping their operations smaller—sometimes a lot smaller—than nationwide.
 
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