Bobby Cox voted in to Baseball Hall of Fame
- Thread starter Krgrecw
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CyYoung31
Shift Leader
I wasn't aware of any animosity between the two.
Watch the interview with the 3 on espn.com when Ravech asks LaRussa to describe strengths of Cox and Torre. When he talks about Bobby it sounds so fake lol.
Also, I wonder why the committee decided to put all 3 in at same time.
If I recall, Bobby and Torre both retired at the end of the 2010 season. La Russa won the WS in 2011 and called it quits after that.
Shouldn't LaRussa be eligible next year? Or were BC and JT eligible last year and didn't get voted in?
If I recall, Bobby and Torre both retired at the end of the 2010 season. La Russa won the WS in 2011 and called it quits after that.
Shouldn't LaRussa be eligible next year? Or were BC and JT eligible last year and didn't get voted in?
CyYoung31
Shift Leader
I didn't get that at all. It seemed very geniune.
Great interview. I love Bobby. I did find it interesting though, that he didn't mention Wren when talking about GMs he worked under.
Metaphysicist
Not Actually Brian Hunter
This is the first year any of them were up for a vote. They were all immediately eligible because they are so old.
The Expansion Era committee (the guys who voted them in) doesn't meet ever year; it is only one part of the overall Veterans Committee. There are three "Era" committees, and they rotate each year. Last year was the "Pre-Integration Committee," and they elected deadball folk. The year before was the "Golden Era Committee," who elected Santo.
VirginiaBrave
Well-known member
and figured there was anamosity between Bobby and Frank, because of how Glav and Smoltzie were dumped. Also figured it hastened Bobby's retirement by a bit. Also always had a hunch Bobby's decision might have made Billy Wagner's too. Always found it strange he signed on for two, and almost instantly said 2010 was it.
Anyway congrats Skipper.
50PoundHead
Hessmania Forever
Back when the Cards went up 3-1 in 1996, Eckersley started dancing around after the 4-3 win and Cox got pretty animated in his comments. LaRussa got pretty animated in his response. I could be projecting, but it seemed like a lot more than two managers just sticking up for their teams. That said, I looked up some recent comments and it appears I am totally off base. It just seemed in 1996, those two were ready to rumble.
Chuck Tanner was a field general. Unfortunately, the time in Atlanta tarnished his image. Russ Nixon didn't help morale. He publicly directed a comment at Tanner, by saying "I'm not going to be a BS artist."
50PoundHead
Hessmania Forever
My problem with Tanner is that he was way too dedicated to the "play the game right" mantra that he inevitably brought in guys who would throw to the right base and not be able to do anything else. It didn't help that the Braves' minor league system was in a total shambles and that previous GMs had made a bunch of bad trades (sometimes urged by Ted Turner). Cox's tenure as GM helped build the success of the 1990s and early-2000s because he put Paul Snyder in charge of the drafting and put together a solid nucleus of guys. But Bobby also fell in love with a lot of guys and Schuerholz came in and pulled some necessary triggers to get everything in place.
Agree on Russ Nixon. Seemed to be simply a miserable human being as a manager. Had a terrible team on the field (those of you who remember David Justice trying to play 1B and Ron Gant trying to play 3B will likely agree), but the guy couldn't seem to say a nice thing about anyone.
Knucksie, thanks for bringing me back to the 1980s. I quit drinking in 1984 and I wasn't married yet, so all I did was watch Braves' baseball when I could. How I stayed dry I will never know. Those were some miserable years.
He did try to put a happy face on everything. Think Claudell Washington had played for him with the White Sox. Chuck made it seem as if he and Omar Moreno were what they had been, back in the 70's. To be fair, nobody could've done anything with that team, and Chuck deserved a better fate.
The effects of Len Barker had been felt for years. It would be interesting to know Joe Torre's take. It was other factors, besides trades though, too. Ted fashioned himself as sort of a maverick, like Steinbrenner and he really believed that "Mouth of the South" reputation. Some of the FA signings proved disastrous. Nobody could've foreseen what was going to happen to Bruce Sutter, but they were kidding themselves if they thought that they were close to contention. Getting the game's premier closer is not something a second division team does. That led to the absurd idea to convert Steve Bedrosian into a starter, then the trade to Phillies. He subsequently won a Cy Young as a closer.
Then, the org had too much wrapped up in Brad Komminsk. Think it was Bill's book that revealed that the Indians offered Brett Butler back for Komminsk and were turned down!
Insofar as stockpiling young pitching was concerned, definitely. In other facets of the job, Cox was troublesome, because the 2nd half of the 80's were beyond disaster on the field. Let me recount some of the blunders:
* A package deal of Andre Dawson & Tim Raines was there for the taking. This was during the high holy days of collusion. Dawson went to the Cubs with the famous "any amount."
* Told Bob Horner, "we finished in last with you, with can finish in last without you" and they did just that. Horner signed in Japan without a major league offer. Again, collusion.
* Serious reports of Phil and Joe Niekro in a return engagement were rebuffed. Both obviously still had gas in the tank.
* Flubbing the Dale Murphy situation. OK, it's understandable that he didn't want to trade a Braves icon, but let's ponder what could have been:
The Padres offered John Kruk, Roberto & Sandy Alomar.
The Mets offered Howard Johnson, Lenny Dykstra and Rick Aguilera (recall that 3B, CF and closer were DEFINITE needs, at the time - but Aguilera might not have been converted until he got to Minnesota). Cox insisted that David West (yeah, who?) be included, instead of Aguilera.
Some may dispute this claim, but it is verifiable. If there was any way to persuade Todd Van Poppel to sign in 1990, when they had the #1 overall pick in the draft, there would have been no Chipper. Maybe Van Poppel would've become everything projected of him, by being around Glavine, Smoltz and Avery, but who knows? Just glad things worked out the way they did.
Schuerholz's impact was immediate. The FA signings of Sid Bream, Terry Pendleton and the Otis Nixon trade were huge.
Ronnie Gant was brutal enough at 2B. All credit to him, though, for going all the back to A ball to learn to play OF.
Those teams probably drove plenty of fans to drink.
Late 80's were my college years. Used to wear my jersey to class, sometimes. A few of the guys used to raze me, because the Braves sucked so badly during that era. It's funny because one them always used to say that he liked Zane Smith (another Cox trade blunder). '91 made up for it, since every season preview magazine still picked them to finish last. Off season 91/92, some cute babe asked me if I could give her my cap. Mistake at not pursuing that conversation further, but no way was the official cap. Respect had been restored. OK, end of nostalgia trip.
Last year, there was an article in Sports Weekly about them. LaRussa said that they (meaning him and Leyland, who was 3rd base coach) were impressed, during the White Sox years, with some of the things Cox did while managing in Toronto.
Oklahomahawk
Boras' Client
And somewhere Wilbo spins in his grave at about the same revolutions per second as an electric fan in mid-August (even if he's still alive). 
Metaphysicist
Not Actually Brian Hunter
I think it is a little unfair to lay the the owners' collusion moves at the feet of Cox. That wasn't his call. "Not signing Dawson, Raines, or Horner" is a criticism that could be pinned on just about every GM in baseball, including the guy who replaced him.
The Neikros were pretty mediocre from '85 on. Not sure they would have made much of a difference, though they'd have been nice to have around for nostalgia (and to dump some of the extant roster crud).
But yeah, looking back, those late '80s team gave a new meaning to the word "ugly."
Metaphysicist
Not Actually Brian Hunter
I think it is a little unfair to lay the the owners' collusion moves at the feet of Cox. That wasn't his call. "Not signing Dawson, Raines, or Horner" is a criticism that could be pinned on just about every GM in baseball, including the guy who replaced him.
The Neikros were pretty mediocre from '85 on. Not sure they would have made much of a difference, though they'd have been nice to have around for nostalgia (and to dump some of the extant roster crud).
But yeah, looking back, those late '80s team gave a new meaning to the word "ugly."
It definitely wasn't intended to lay it all at Bobby's feet, and the post did cite the collusion angle. Still, the "blank check" was good enough for the Cubs. My overall point was that the rebuild could've been accelerated faster than the 6 years it ultimately took. Mike Adams used to argue the effects of the Cox GM years with me, over at Scout.
Some of the other names, who were declined in trade offers, would come back to bite the Braves: Roberto Alomar and Len Dykstra, specifically. With the benefit of hindsight, we can probably all agree that Bobby's task was to accept that the team was going to suck real bad for years, but they had to continue stockpiling young pitching. As point of reference, the Pirates had also hit rock bottom during the same time period. Syd Thrift took a different approach. He focused on position players (Bonds, Bonilla, King, Lavalliere) and made shrewd trades (Van Slyke). The Pirates did improve sooner, but obviously the case is indisputable that the Braves ultimately did better in the end.
No question that both had seen better days, and were long in the tooth by then. They could've been innings eaters and offered vet experience. Think that Niekro brother reunion offer was actually a couple years later, though, like around '87.