Bowman: Braves With Decisions To Make After Disappointing '14

zitothebrave said:
The thing is you said it, no one knew SPan and Revere would both be sold. Most considered Revere would have been the keeper. Don't know why they traded him except that they realized he isn't that good. Doesn't hit, doesn't field, just fast.

Wren was effectively bidding against himself, but he didn't want another Lowe contract. Damned if you do damned if you don't. Most figured Upton would get at least 5/60 so it's not like he was gigantically overpaid. IIRC the numbers were basically a 5 year lock with money ranging from 60-80 so we were likely on the upper, but not out fo the realm. It wasn't like with Lowe where we had to pay him another year to get him to play here.
Click to expand...

But that's precisely what he got. Wren's problem here is that he overpaid for a non-core player. The core at the point of this signing was Heyward, Freeman, and Uggla (which is another kettle of fish), but you don't sign a non-core player to the size of contract to which he signed M. Upton. And it's the length of contact that is more bothersome than the annual size of contract (although it's at least $3 million per year above market for M. Upton). He should have offered him three years with an option and if he didn't take it, adios amigo.
 
zitothebrave said:
To be fair the Braves had bad contracts before Wren. Remember Mike Hampton?
Click to expand...

Remember Hampton only costed us 8 mil a year when healthy Hampton pitched up to that level and god was he a great hitter (well for a pitcher). He was just really really fragile. it just seemed he got hurt a lot. He would finally get healthy, make his rehab starts and he gets hurt warming up in the bullpen, when he finally was making his first start. Kawakami is probably a better comparison as far as payroll impact .
 
Dalyn said:
I won't cry if they fire Wren. I might if they don't fire Fredi.
Click to expand...

I kinda wish they could have Hart handle the free agent negotiations, and have Wren do what he's really good at: finding bullpen pieces and in trades. Wren has made some really lopsided trades, and except for JJ ( still feel like if Jurrjens hadn't gotten hurt he might have had a pretty good career) and Hanson. Now Fredi, he has to go. First of all, he is a horrible in game manager. He lacks the ability to think outside of the book. Book says kimbrel can only get 4 outs, so Craig sits while Carpenter blows the lead. He's overmatched by most managers.

Second, his bullpen usage is rediculous. He rode O'Flaherty and Venters into the ground. Heck, linebrink blames Fredi for ending his career.

This team is not a .500 team talent wise, and the manager should be held accountable.
 
jcc03004 said:
I kinda wish they could have Hart handle the free agent negotiations, and have Wren do what he's really good at: finding bullpen pieces and in trades. Wren has made some really lopsided trades, and except for JJ ( still feel like if Jurrjens hadn't gotten hurt he might have had a pretty good career) and Hanson. Now Fredi, he has to go. First of all, he is a horrible in game manager. He lacks the ability to think outside of the book. Book says kimbrel can only get 4 outs, so Craig sits while Carpenter blows the lead. He's overmatched by most managers.
Second, his bullpen usage is rediculous. He rode O'Flaherty and Venters into the ground. Heck, linebrink blames Fredi for ending his career.
This team is not a .500 team talent wise, and the manager should be held accountable.
Click to expand...

I'm no Fredi fan, but I still get this feeling that Fredi is taking orders on who to play from upstairs. He sat M. Upton early in the season last year and inserted Schafer. He used Ramiro Pena much more liberally last year, but this year it's been Johnson almost every day and Uggla was provided every opportunity to prove the second half of last season was a fluke well beyond the point where it was obvious that he had lost it.

I do believe Fredi has lost the team and probably has to go, but Wren needs to take some responsibility as well. It has not been a good mix.
 
At least in terms of building a tough minded team who could score enough to win, this year's been a disaster for Wren. He's knows it well enough and probably saw the potential for disaster as soon than anyone. But do you really improve your organization by firing him and Fredi and starting all over? Seems like to me that you're much better off if you can have some candid conversations and assessments of your weaknesses and what you're able to do and go from there. It's always better to train your own people if they can be trained.

You know Wren can do the job. He's made some good moves and he's had some horrible luck with a few players as well. I can't blame him for Uggla, BJ and Kawakami.

You bring in a new guy, or even another guy from inside the organization, and suddenly you've got a whole slew of new organizational problems as well. Maybe you've got some of these problems already, or maybe folks are just frustrated and some of that is understandable.

What we probably already know about the Braves FO is that if they decide they need a change somewhere they will preserve as much of the infrastructure as possible and not go fixing what aint broke. And even if they think one of them should go they may still give them another year or two to make sure the new guy(s) is the one they want.
 
CyYoung31 said:
Yeah, I'm willing to give Wren another year. We've been nothing but successful in his tenure and, while I don't agree with a few contracts he's handed out, it's not really his fault the roster he put together this year completely underperformed expectations.

As for Fredi, I don't think a new manager is going to magically make us a great team, but I just don't see how you can have two major collapses in 4 years and keep your job.
Click to expand...

Maybe not, but a competent manager allows us to win at least 8-10 of the close games we've lost. Or at least have a much better shot. If we had 8 more wins or even 6 more wins, this thread wouldn't exist right now.
 
I'm not going to cry too hard if Wren is relieved of duty.

But as Zito said, most GMs have had terrible signings.

Don't take Wren's ability to be a wizard at trades for the most part for granted. Justin, Bourn, Walden. We got a couple good years out of Jair, before he went downhill. McClouth was a fail, but that trade didn't really harm us.

JS made a whole list of terrible trades after that first WS loss to the Yankees. I guess he gets a pass because he helped build our success, but several of the trades he made surpass Wren's overpay of BJ Upton. If BJ Upton hit 25 homers and drove in some runs, he'd be an overpay, but he'd be tolerable.
 
At what point do we give JS some of the blame we're attributing to Wren? I feel like most of the blame Wren gets, JS should get as well.
 
bravesnumberone said:
I'm not going to cry too hard if Wren is relieved of duty.

But as Zito said, most GMs have had terrible signings.

Don't take Wren's ability to be a wizard at trades for the most part for granted. Justin, Bourn, Walden. We got a couple good years out of Jair, before he went downhill. McClouth was a fail, but that trade didn't really harm us.

JS made a whole list of terrible trades after that first WS loss to the Yankees. I guess he gets a pass because he helped build our success, but several of the trades he made surpass Wren's overpay of BJ Upton. If BJ Upton hit 25 homers and drove in some runs, he'd be an overpay, but he'd be tolerable.
Click to expand...

Wha??????? Both Morton and Locke are in the Pirates' rotation. I was all for the deal when it was made although I thought McLouth was consistently overrated. But that was a classic now-for-later deal and the Pirates have clearly benefited from the "later" portion of the deal and we could have used those arms.

And I agree with you on Schuerholz. He made a lot of questionable deals late in his tenure.
 
50PoundHead said:
Wha??????? Both Morton and Locke are in the Pirates' rotation. I was all for the deal when it was made although I thought McLouth was consistently overrated. But that was a classic now-for-later deal and the Pirates have clearly benefited from the "later" portion of the deal and we could have used those arms.

And I agree with you on Schuerholz. He made a lot of questionable deals late in his tenure.
Click to expand...

Maybe we could have used them, but neither has been significantly better than arms we've had.
 
RE: Ron Washington

http://thescoopsports.wordpress.com/2014/09/10/ron-washington-departed-over-legal-issues/

I have learned this evening through a source with knowledge of the situation that long-time Texas Rangers skipper Ron Washington’s sudden departure from the club was due to impending legal issues stemming from an alleged sexual assault of a reporter. I have cross-checked this information and feel confident in going forward with what I know, and am currently reaching out to obtain more details of the situation.

Very sad, if true.
 
Fredi can only manage the players that Wren gives him. Fredi can't make these guys hit. Nobody can. Having said that....I am for a total house cleaning. Everybody except for McDowell.
 
50PoundHead said:
Wha??????? Both Morton and Locke are in the Pirates' rotation. I was all for the deal when it was made although I thought McLouth was consistently overrated. But that was a classic now-for-later deal and the Pirates have clearly benefited from the "later" portion of the deal and we could have used those arms.

And I agree with you on Schuerholz. He made a lot of questionable deals late in his tenure.
Click to expand...

JS did make some bad deals late in his tenure, but the farm system was loaded enough under his watch that he could afford to do that. Maybe I'm putting too much emphasis on the farm system, but that is the life blood of a franchise, IMO. If that is not strong, it is tough to be successful unless you have deep pockets.
 
KB21 said:
JS did make some bad deals late in his tenure, but the farm system was loaded enough under his watch that he could afford to do that. Maybe I'm putting too much emphasis on the farm system, but that is the life blood of a franchise, IMO. If that is not strong, it is tough to be successful unless you have deep pockets.
Click to expand...

I agree. Even the good deals Wren made were in the vein of "3-for-1" or "4-for-1" and let's not for get Schuerholz' disastrous "5-for-2." Those types of deals deplete the farm system and reduce margin-for-error.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top