Braves acquire garcia

Enscheff said:
While I don't disagree with the overall premise of the article (that it's foolish to build around pitching), the author does seem to come across like Coppy stole his girlfriend. His tone certainly makes the reader wonder why he hates the Braves so much. Was he passed over for a job with the team maybe?

I think the Astros and Cubs have shown the optimal way to rebuild, while the Mets and Braves have shown what happens when you rely on pitching and that pitching either gets hurt or fails to develop.
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Horse*hit. You disagree with anything that doesn't come out of your mouth.
 
clvclv said:
Horse*hit. You disagree with anything that doesn't come out of your mouth.
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Not true. Every time someone in here calls you an idiot, I agree wholeheartedly.

This conversation didn't involve you, and as usual, you didn't contribute anything that even resembled a rational thought. You just let your internet turrets blabber something out again.

Are you cranky because you haven't sold a double-wide lately or what?
 
thethe said:
What pitching have the braves relied on that didn't develop?
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I have stated several times that the lack of progression by pitchers like Wisler, Newcomb, Jenkins, Blair and Sims is directly responsible for the Braves settling on low cost upgrades for the 2017 season such as Kemp and SRod. The failure of those pitchers to develop unquestionably caused the Braves to sign Dickey and Colon, as well as trading for Garcia. All of those moves serve as nothing more than treading water while giving the impression that the FO was actively improving the MLB roster.

If 2-3 of those pitchers had developed as expected and could be relied upon to anchor the rotation with JT and Folty, I assert the Braves would have upgraded LF with a player the caliber of Ces or Cutch, and would have also upgraded 3b in a more meaningful way. Those pitchers developing as hoped coupled with real upgrades to the position players would have made the Braves a playoff contender in 2017.

So that's what relying on pitchers who failed to develop cost the Braves. It cost them another year of being a terrible baseball team. Or do you think those pitchers are developing as hoped?
 
I predict Wisler and Blair will force their way into the rotation before season end.. (if not traded this off season)..Not a September call up 'in rotation', but you are pitching well enough to deserve another shot. I also predict Wisler will have a sub 4 ERA by end of year.
 
bravesfanMatt said:
I predict Wisler and Blair will force their way into the rotation before season end.. (if not traded this off season)..Not a September call up 'in rotation', but you are pitching well enough to deserve another shot. I also predict Wisler will have a sub 4 ERA by end of year.
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I'll take that bet. How many innings of sub-4 ERA ball?
 
Enscheff said:
I have stated several times that the lack of progression by pitchers like Wisler, Newcomb, Jenkins, Blair and Sims is directly responsible for the Braves settling on low cost upgrades for the 2017 season such as Kemp and SRod. The failure of those pitchers to develop unquestionably caused the Braves to sign Dickey and Colon, as well as trading for Garcia. All of those moves serve as nothing more than treading water while giving the impression that the FO was actively improving the MLB roster.

If 2-3 of those pitchers had developed as expected and could be relied upon to anchor the rotation with JT and Folty, I assert the Braves would have upgraded LF with a player the caliber of Ces or Cutch, and would have also upgraded 3b in a more meaningful way. Those pitchers developing as hoped coupled with real upgrades to the position players would have made the Braves a playoff contender in 2017.

So that's what relying on pitchers who failed to develop cost the Braves. It cost them another year of being a terrible baseball team. Or do you think those pitchers are developing as hoped?
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Aside from Newcomb I don't think the braves ever had plans on relying on them. This is all about putting together a competitive team till the young talent matures. It was never about 2017 to win.
 
bravesfanMatt said:
While I understand what you are asking, you could also say we are in this rebuild because our pitching didn't develop and got hurt.
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I assume you are talking about guys like Medlen/Beachy/JJ?

If so, we had to rebuild because Wren was a disaster overall as a GM.
 
thethe said:
Aside from Newcomb I don't think the braves ever had plans on relying on them. This is all about putting together a competitive team till the young talent matures. It was never about 2017 to win.
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Except the narrative was "win by the time we go into the new ballpark". Or was that just conveniently written off as lip service since it doesn't jive with your opinion?
 
Enscheff said:
Except the narrative was "win by the time we go into the new ballpark". Or was that just conveniently written off as lip service since it doesn't jive with your opinion?
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Can you tell me what they should have said?
 
thethe said:
Can you tell me what they should have said?
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So it was lip service and just for show? But the facade of going after Sale wasn't?

Are you aware that your arguments aren't even consistent? You decide which is a true or false statement based upon which ones you want to believe.
 
Enscheff said:
So it was lip service and just for show? But the facade of going after Sale wasn't?

Are you aware that your arguments aren't even consistent? You decide which is a true or false statement based upon which ones you want to believe.
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You have to be a fool if you thought the Braves were ever serious about competing for a championship in 2017.
 
thethe said:
You have to be a fool if you thought the Braves were ever serious about competing for a championship in 2017.
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You have to be a fool if you thought the Braves were going to actually trade for Sale this offseason.

Oh wait...you and several others did.
 
Enscheff said:
You have to be a fool if you thought the Braves were going to actually trade for Sale this offseason.

Oh wait...you and several others did.
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Well you can't say they haven't yet and I think a lot of us though it was possible. If they don't trade for him we were not necessarily wrong.
 
thethe said:
Well you can't say they haven't yet and I think a lot of us though it was possible. If they don't trade for him we were not necessarily wrong.
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And several people explained in great detail why it was extremely unlikely, almost zero chance in fact. All other baseball sites said it wasn't going to happen. Everyone with any amount of credibility said it would be a terrible idea. Now Hart is saying it isn't going to happen in his typical spin style aimed at the ignorant fan base.

Yet here you are, insisting it was possible and swallowing the same type of BS narrative you just dismissed as something only a fool would believe.

So only a fool believes the "win in 2017" narrative, but you're not a fool for believing the "Sale to Atlanta" narrative? Why is that? Only difference I see is that you don't want to admit to being the fool.
 
I still think there is a good chance that we make a big trade. If we do it will be for someone with four plus years of control, which is why I think Sale is so unlikely.
 
Oklahomabrave said:
I still think there is a good chance that we make a big trade. If we do it will be for someone with four plus years of control, which is why I think Sale is so unlikely.
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Due to the extreme likelihood of pitchers being lost to career ending injuries, any deal made for a "win now" pitcher must put a premium on the first year with the new team. Due to the fact alone, the chances of a trade for an Ace this offseason is nearly zero. Add in the fact that Hart has literally just confirmed that the Braves intend to grow their Aces, and I would estimate the chances of the Braves ever signing or trading for an Ace will remain nearly zero for the foreseeable future.

If the Braves are going to make a big trade this offseason it will be for position player at a position of organizational need. Those positions being 3b and catcher. The expendable pieces are one of Mallex/Inciarte (though it appears they may consider Ender untouchable), fungible high level prospects like Ruiz/Peterson, and pitching talent currently in A-ball
 
striker42 said:
That article was a little harsh but I guess moderate, well reasoned writing doesn't get clicks.
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I find that to be a really peculiar article. Is the writer supposed to be a quality columnist or astute analysis guy? I've never heard of him and ability to remain focused on a single point of logic seems pretty limited.

He could have saved himself an article by realizing that the Braves aren't trying to win big in 2017 and sticking to the implications of what that means. But he seems to not realize that, or at least to have trouble keeping it in his head.

And the fact that he apparently doesn't draw a distinction between committing money on one year deals to three veterans and dropping a megaton of cash on a long term deal for Justin Turner is a little odd for someone that writes about baseball.

Nor is his understanding about the Braves reason for selling off the team particularly reasoned - and the bit about the stadium seems like something aimed to get him a position at Deadspin, which I must say I truly detest.
 
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