Braves Acquire Matt Adams From Cardinals

Enscheff said:
lol come on bud, you're way too smart to have written that.
Click to expand...

Hah, I'm not saying I think Freeman was a capable 3B and/or I think he's going to make it there now. I think this experiment will fail miserably, but I see no real reason to care all that much about it in a lost season either.

I'm just saying the Braves had reasons to move him to 1B beyond just him sucking defensively at 3B. We had both Chipper and Prado for 3B and absolutely nothing in the pipeline for 1B, and Freddie and Heyward were both considered bats that could move quickly. SC77 was saying there was zero incentive to do it, I'm just saying there was some incentive there.
 
auyushu said:
Hah, I'm not saying I think Freeman was a capable 3B and/or I think he's going to make it there now. I think this experiment will fail miserably, but I see no real reason to care all that much about it in a lost season either.

I'm just saying the Braves had reasons to move him to 1B beyond just him sucking defensively at 3B. We had both Chipper and Prado for 3B and absolutely nothing in the pipeline for 1B, and Freddie and Heyward were both considered bats that could move quickly. SC77 was saying there was zero incentive to do it, I'm just saying there was some incentive there.
Click to expand...

Yeah, this is pretty much my thinking. I also don't think it'll end up working, but why not give it a shot? No real downside.
 
smootness said:
I disagree. I think there is 0 chance he can play a passable 3B.
Click to expand...

I think it's a 0.1% chance. Which is much greater than Camargo pitching and the like.

People are acting like we're making Freeman a starter. This transition has been done before, and even though Freeman is almost certain to be garbage at it, he likely won't be so bad that it's disrespectful to the game of baseball. That is the difference between the joke suggestions and Freeman to 3B. Plus, this experiment will likely improve draft position and should be fun.
 
auyushu said:
Hah, I'm not saying I think Freeman was a capable 3B and/or I think he's going to make it there now. I think this experiment will fail miserably, but I see no real reason to care all that much about it in a lost season either.

I'm just saying the Braves had reasons to move him to 1B beyond just him sucking defensively at 3B. We had both Chipper and Prado for 3B and absolutely nothing in the pipeline for 1B, and Freddie and Heyward were both considered bats that could move quickly. SC77 was saying there was zero incentive to do it, I'm just saying there was some incentive there.
Click to expand...

I think you should just admit the Braves weren't measuring him for the major league roster after four games as an 18 year old and the major league roster had nothing to do with his being moved off third.

Certainly Prado was no reason to do it either.
 
Southcack77 said:
I think you should just admit the Braves weren't measuring him for the major league roster after four games as an 18 year old and the major league roster had nothing to do with his being moved off third.

Certainly Prado was no reason to do it either.
Click to expand...

But four games at a portion is also not a fair evaluation. I am not suggesting That they moved him because of chipper. But 4 games and some exhibition games. Surely you don't think that is a fair shake in the same regards that an org would not move an 18 because of major roster.
 
bravesfanMatt said:
But four games at a portion is also not a fair evaluation. I am not suggesting That they moved him because of chipper. But 4 games and some exhibition games. Surely you don't think that is a fair shake in the same regards that an org would not move an 18 because of major roster.
Click to expand...

I think most talent evaluators can tell if a guy can play 3b without ever seeing him play a single game there. It was obviously an easy decision to move him to 1B. The Braves never move a guy off a more premium position right away...they always let them at least attempt the harder position, as they should.

It was clear Freeman couldn't play 3b when he was 18, and it should be clear he can't play it now.

I'm not against it just because Freeman will suck at 3b. I'm not even that worried about the organization just letting their star do whatever he thinks is best. While the increase injury risk is certainly present, it's not enough of a reason to stop this from happening. I don't even mind much that the Braves are so pathetic this year that everyone simply says "why not?", as embarrassing as that should be.

My biggest issue is that it's being done to make room for Matt "Lucky Flyball" Adams, and what that means for the Braves ability to evaluate MLB talent and building a winner. This same group thought HO could play 3b and was worth trading Wood to acquire. This same group needed to "see what they had" with Adonis Garcia at 3b for hundreds of ABs more than anyone else needed. This FO thinks Kemp is a legitimately good player. This FO thought it was a good idea to sign Dickey and Colon to improve the rotation.

All of the moves they have made recently to "fix" the MLB team have been terrible. Now they are moving their MVP candidate guy from 1B to 3b to make room for a guy that popped a few HRs over a 3 week stretch because they once again mistakenly think he is part of the solution.

I cringe at the thought of them trading away more young assets for MLB "fixes" when they have proven time and time again to be incapable of evaluating MLB contributors.
 
Enscheff, you're right about everything else, but Dickey has been ok for a fifth starter and guys in AAA needed more time. Plus he was cheap. Not like Colon.

(Other moves to improve their MLB lineup have worked in the bullpen and with Garcia, but you didn't mention those)
 
Enscheff said:
I think most talent evaluators can tell if a guy can play 3b without ever seeing him play a single game there. It was obviously an easy decision to move him to 1B. The Braves never move a guy off a more premium position right away...they always let them at least attempt the harder position, as they should.

It was clear Freeman couldn't play 3b when he was 18, and it should be clear he can't play it now.

I'm not against it just because Freeman will suck at 3b. I'm not even that worried about the organization just letting their star do whatever he thinks is best. While the increase injury risk is certainly present, it's not enough of a reason to stop this from happening. I don't even mind much that the Braves are so pathetic this year that everyone simply says "why not?", as embarrassing as that should be.

My biggest issue is that it's being done to make room for Matt "Lucky Flyball" Adams, and what that means for the Braves ability to evaluate MLB talent and building a winner. This same group thought HO could play 3b and was worth trading Wood to acquire. This same group needed to "see what they had" with Adonis Garcia at 3b for hundreds of ABs more than anyone else needed. This FO thinks Kemp is a legitimately good player. This FO thought it was a good idea to sign Dickey and Colon to improve the rotation.

All of the moves they have made recently to "fix" the MLB team have been terrible. Now they are moving their MVP candidate guy from 1B to 3b to make room for a guy that popped a few HRs over a 3 week stretch because they once again mistakenly think he is part of the solution.

I cringe at the thought of them trading away more young assets for MLB "fixes" when they have proven time and time again to be incapable of evaluating MLB contributors.
Click to expand...

Ahhh. So we're back to the FO are all idiots and if they would just do it my way all would be well with the Braves...argument. If only they had as much data and knowledge as you.
 
mfree80 said:
Ahhh. So we're back to the FO are all idiots and if they would just do it my way all would be well with the Braves...argument. If only they had as much data and knowledge as you.
Click to expand...

Another contrarian post without contributing anything to the discussion...nice.

So you think everything I listed were good moves?

What are some of the good additions they have made to the MLB roster that give you confidence they can make good decisions going forward? Flowers, Phillips and....maybe Garcia? The bad MLB additions have FAR outweighed the good ones.

Hell, the disasters have outweighed the non-disasters. Is that where you are setting the bar for this FO? It's OK as long as the majority of their MLB additions aren't complete disasters?
 
nsacpi said:
Years later Chipper expressed regret about the whole thing. He thinks his time in left contributed to some of the leg problems later in his career.

I hope nothing like that happens with Freddie.

My recollection is Chipper's move to left was to accommodate Mark DeRosa at third. Who happened to be a very good friend of Chipper's. There are a whole host of reasons you want to keep players as far away from these kinds of decisions as possible.
Click to expand...

First time around Chipper was in left as a rookie, got hurt, then the strike occurred. He took over at 3rd after Pendleton was FA. Agreed to return to LF with return of Vinny Castilla. When Pendleton was required for '96 run, Chipper moved to short late in season with little time to adapt. May have been Schuerholz post-waiver trade?

Just going from memory!
 
"Jeffrey Todd

3:48 Why is everyone down on Matt Adams value and referencing his old numbers? He shed 30 pounds in the offseason. New player. Although keeping up at his current pace isn't likely either.

Steve Adams

3:49 Sure, he looks better. He also still can't hit lefties, doesn't have much defensive value and his hitting all of his homers at the Braves' launching pad of a new home park. And it's 165 plate appearances. I'm not turned off to the idea that there could be genuine improvement here, but the notion of moving Freddie Freeman to third base to accommodate him is nuts to me, and I don't think you'd have teams falling all over themselves to acquire him in a trade if the Braves put him back out there."

I'm not sure his comment about hitting all his HRs in Atlanta, but the rest is spot on.

His HR rate has predictably dropped to 20.3% on the season, and his OPS has dropped to .878...equally predictably. When it drops a few more percentage points his OPS will be right back near his career line....exactly as predicted.

He will make an excellent hitter off the bench when the Freeman-at-3b experiment is over. I hope the Braves keep him for 2018.
 
Enscheff said:
"Jeffrey Todd
3:48 Why is everyone down on Matt Adams value and referencing his old numbers? He shed 30 pounds in the offseason. New player. Although keeping up at his current pace isn't likely either.

Steve Adams
3:49 Sure, he looks better. He also still can't hit lefties, doesn't have much defensive value and his hitting all of his homers at the Braves' launching pad of a new home park. And it's 165 plate appearances. I'm not turned off to the idea that there could be genuine improvement here, but the notion of moving Freddie Freeman to third base to accommodate him is nuts to me, and I don't think you'd have teams falling all over themselves to acquire him in a trade if the Braves put him back out there."

I'm not sure his comment about hitting all his HRs in Atlanta, but the rest is spot on.

His HR rate has predictably dropped to 20.3% on the season, and his OPS has dropped to .878...equally predictably. When it drops a few more percentage points his OPS will be right back near his career line....exactly as predicted.

He will make an excellent hitter off the bench when the Freeman-at-3b experiment is over. I hope the Braves keep him for 2018.
Click to expand...

Other than Suntrust playing as a slightly below average HR park and Adams having home road HR splits of 7/6, this dude is right on top of it. But hey, he has a Q&A on an internet site, so whatever he says.
 
Adams has hit .225 over the last two weeks. You should never take a player's numbers when he's at the peak of a hot streak as what he's capable of. Similarly, when a player is in the throws of a cold streak you don't tout his numbers then as true either.

Adams will probably settle into something above his numbers in recent years (he's entering his peak years) but something below what he did when he got here.
 
Yes, times have changed. I don't think they are going with pitching in hopes of fielding three aces like the old days. Rather, to try and maintain the depth to field a group of five solid, cheap starters at all times.

We are not the Yankees. We can not go and sign two of three pitchers making 20-30 mil a year.

Really, loading up on hitting or pitching has its pitfalls and I would rather have balance. By a little luck, we are sitting fine in the hitting department.

Bottom line and back on subject....if SRod is back...Adams needs to be traded if the right offer is there.
 
striker42 said:
Adams has hit .225 over the last two weeks. You should never take a player's numbers when he's at the peak of a hot streak as what he's capable of. Similarly, when a player is in the throws of a cold streak you don't tout his numbers then as true either.

Adams will probably settle into something above his numbers in recent years (he's entering his peak years) but something below what he did when he got here.
Click to expand...

I think the issue is not the FO lacking an understanding of what you have pointed out. It is the FO indulging a star player who does not understand the above.

I hope we resume the Adams in the outfield experiment the Cardinals briefly tried. How much worse would Adams be defensively than our current incumbents at corner outfield. I would sit each of them one game a week and let Adams play in their place. Both of them would probably benefit from having a game off every week or so.
 
TheBravos said:
Yes, times have changed. I don't think they are going with pitching in hopes of fielding three aces like the old days. Rather, to try and maintain the depth to field a group of five solid, cheap starters at all times.

We are not the Yankees. We can not go and sign two of three pitchers making 20-30 mil a year.

Really, loading up on hitting or pitching has its pitfalls and I would rather have balance. By a little luck, we are sitting fine in the hitting department.

Bottom line and back on subject....if SRod is back...Adams needs to be traded if the right offer is there.
Click to expand...

The whole point of the Freeman to 3B experiment was to try to drive Adams' trade value higher, and if it didn't work, playing Freddie over there for a little while during a lost season isn't going to hurt. So far no one's biting, but in all honesty there were likely only two targets to begin with - the Yankees or Mariners. All you can do at this point is hope for another hot streak soon while giving Rodriguez plenty of time to continue to rehab. If that hot streak comes, you get something for him, move Freeman back to 1B, and activate Rodriguez to play 3B.

If he doesn't get hot and bring you a decent return in the next couple of weeks (or this winter), it's not the worst thing - sign Moustakas or Frazier to play 3B, and Alex Avila or Miguel Montero to pair with Flowers this winter. Rodriguez becomes the 2018 super-sub, and you keep Adams to be your thunder off the bench. That's a LOT of offense that will make things much easier on the starting pitching. A bench consisting of Flowers/Avila/Montero, Adams, Rodriguez, Santana and Camargo would be awesome.
 
nsacpi said:
I think the issue is not the FO lacking an understanding of what you have pointed out. It is the FO indulging a star player who does not understand the above.

I hope we resume the Adams in the outfield experiment the Cardinals briefly tried. How much worse would Adams be defensively than our current incumbents at corner outfield. I would sit each of them one game a week and let Adams play in their place. Both of them would probably benefit from having a game off every week or so.
Click to expand...

This. Although I wonder if you wouldn't need to play Rodriguez or Santana if/when you gave Markakis a day off and play Adams in LF twice a week. Flanking Ender with Kemp AND Adams on the same day might be asking a little much IMO. Give Freddie a day off each week as well to help keep him fresh too, and Adams would have plenty of ABs to stay sharp.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top