Braves Acquire Stephen Vogt

50PoundHead said:
Berne was repeating rookie league ball as a 25-year-old so I will be curious where the D-Backs put him. Pretty impressive power numbers as a college player. Hails from Lumberton, North Carolina, birthplace of former Braves' first-round pick Tommy Greene and the setting for David Lynch's Blue Velvet.

That aside, I really do wonder what the heck Anthopoulos is thinking. The dice were hot for him with the one-year deals to Donaldson and Ozuna, but he's been rollling snake eyes ever since.
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Not really accurate. He hit on d’Arnaud and Morton. Even Will Smith if we’re talking strictly performance. It still remains to be seen on Smyly (again, if we’re talking strictly performance).
 
CyYoung31 said:
Not really accurate. He hit on d’Arnaud and Morton. Even Will Smith if we’re talking strictly performance. It still remains to be seen on Smyly (again, if we’re talking strictly performance).
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Didn't he sign Matzek as well? Last year he was dominant. The trade for Greene worked out great (re-signing him has not). AA has had more positive moves than negative.

I chalk up this terrible offseason to funds lost due to COVID. Seems like we are drawing better this season than we had in the past pre-Covid. i'm sure this offseason will allow us to be active again.
 
Tommy Greene actually is from Whiteville. Dont know if Lumberton enters into anything other than a hospital Enough about tho Interesting thing for note McKenzie Gore is also from Whiteville, the acrobatic CF for the Braves back in the 80s was from Whiteville. Baseball seems to be the center of life for Whiteville student athletes. Population for Whateville is 5000 yet hardly a year goes by that a player from Whiteville is not drafted.

Otis Nixon!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
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PawPawMaxwell said:
Tommy Greene actually is from Whiteville. Dont know if Lumberton enters into anything other than a hospital Enough about tho Interesting thing for note McKenzie Gore is also from Whiteville, the acrobatic CF for the Braves back in the 80s was from Whiteville. Baseball seems to be the center of life for Whiteville student athletes. Population for Whateville is 5000 yet hardly a year goes by that a player from Whiteville is not drafted.

Otis Nixon!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Greene's birthplace is listed as Lumberton.

I guess I'm one of the few that is still a bit of an Anthopoulos skeptic. Morton's been good, but has he been $15 million good? Smyly's been better of late, but is he worth $11 million? The Smith signing was definitely out of character and while I don't think Smith is terrible, can a financially-challenged team afford to pay a closer (if that is what Smith really is) $13 mllion per year for three years? That said, this has simply been a star-crossed year and I don't want to lay this all at his feet.

I'll give you d'Arnaud, but he's terrible defensively outside being a very good pitch framer.

Anthopoulos went into the season thinking he needed to sign a bat and he did with Ozuna and simply fill in around the edges with one-year pitching deals. If Ozuna is doing half of what he did last year and d'Arnaud is healthy, maybe everything turns out differently. There just wasn't (and still isn't) that much room for error.
 
50PoundHead said:
Greene's birthplace is listed as Lumberton.

I guess I'm one of the few that is still a bit of an Anthopoulos skeptic. Morton's been good, but has he been $15 million good? Smyly's been better of late, but is he worth $11 million? The Smith signing was definitely out of character and while I don't think Smith is terrible, can a financially-challenged team afford to pay a closer (if that is what Smith really is) $13 mllion per year for three years? That said, this has simply been a star-crossed year and I don't want to lay this all at his feet.

I'll give you d'Arnaud, but he's terrible defensively outside being a very good pitch framer.

Anthopoulos went into the season thinking he needed to sign a bat and he did with Ozuna and simply fill in around the edges with one-year pitching deals. If Ozuna is doing half of what he did last year and d'Arnaud is healthy, maybe everything turns out differently. There just wasn't (and still isn't) that much room for error.
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Nah...I'm one of the few with you 50. TDA is probably more appreciated due to the debacle of catching prowess we've seen since he went out. Morton, yeah...I'll give you that too. But the dismantling of the Pen (perhaps inevitable) has been a complete miss. I'm more concerned about holding on to AAAA pitching too long and the diminishing returns we will see via trades forcing you to overpay for real talent.

None of us could have foreseen the injuries...the domestic slugfest or putrid production from CF, C and dare I say the manager (some of us KNEW...). I still contend that AA has been overly cautious with trades and average at best with the 'little resources' he's been afforded. And yes...I would bytch and moan about trading prospects I have grown close to. But I also understand that the pipeline and end result runs through Atlanta. So yeah..trade em if it means a better mlb team.

In the end as 50 stated there wasn't much room for error. It's not all AA's fault.....but in a season that truly stinks, someones gotta get the entitled fans wrath. Now about Snit...
 
I wonder if the reluctance to trade prospects to improve the big league team is a result of the Coppy misdeed. Deester and others living closer to the minor league teams certainly are more knowledgeable than I about the prospects but my unprofessional opinion is that we just dont have that much of value to others nor of value to us going forward.
 
50PoundHead said:
Greene's birthplace is listed as Lumberton.

I guess I'm one of the few that is still a bit of an Anthopoulos skeptic. Morton's been good, but has he been $15 million good? Smyly's been better of late, but is he worth $11 million? The Smith signing was definitely out of character and while I don't think Smith is terrible, can a financially-challenged team afford to pay a closer (if that is what Smith really is) $13 mllion per year for three years? That said, this has simply been a star-crossed year and I don't want to lay this all at his feet.

I'll give you d'Arnaud, but he's terrible defensively outside being a very good pitch framer.

Anthopoulos went into the season thinking he needed to sign a bat and he did with Ozuna and simply fill in around the edges with one-year pitching deals. If Ozuna is doing half of what he did last year and d'Arnaud is healthy, maybe everything turns out differently. There just wasn't (and still isn't) that much room for error.
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As with everything, these answers always depend on the context you answer with.

Has Charlie been an Ace? Has Smyly "earned" his $11 million? In terms of pure statistics or if you look at their numbers strictly through the lens of new metrics, probably not - although each still has a significant number of starts remaining (if healthy) to make those numbers end up much closer than where they started (or even are right now).

I don't think there are any ways to accurately measure the monetary difference in getting two big signings like that out of the way really early on in the offseason (especially when you have relatively intrusive budget constraints like those we assume AA usually deals with), but I personally just take a stab in the dark for argument's sake and discount their deals $2 million each. If that's even remotely close and you measure Charlie against SPs making ~ $13 million and Smyly against those making ~ $9 million rather than strictly by certain more "specialized" stats, neither signing looks like something to ding Alex for IMO. Smyly has been a significantly better signing than the Richards/Happ/Minor/Quintana/Paxton crew. You have fewer guys to compare Charlie with, but I'd argue it was worth a little more to sign him than Kluber and probably worth more to sign him over Odorizzi or Walker given their injury histories. In hindsight it might have worked out better to give the extra money to the last two guys, but I'm far from convinced either of them will last three years (and make 75% of their scheduled starts) just yet.
 
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Deester11 said:
Nah...I'm one of the few with you 50. TDA is probably more appreciated due to the debacle of catching prowess we've seen since he went out. Morton, yeah...I'll give you that too. But the dismantling of the Pen (perhaps inevitable) has been a complete miss. I'm more concerned about holding on to AAAA pitching too long and the diminishing returns we will see via trades forcing you to overpay for real talent.

None of us could have foreseen the injuries...the domestic slugfest or putrid production from CF, C and dare I say the manager (some of us KNEW...). I still contend that AA has been overly cautious with trades and average at best with the 'little resources' he's been afforded. And yes...I would bytch and moan about trading prospects I have grown close to. But I also understand that the pipeline and end result runs through Atlanta. So yeah..trade em if it means a better mlb team.

In the end as 50 stated there wasn't much room for error. It's not all AA's fault.....but in a season that truly stinks, someones gotta get the entitled fans wrath. Now about Snit...
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What dismantling of the pen? It’s literally the same guys from last year, sans Melancon.
 
I have this image of Greene standing on mound before delivering a pitch and looking like he didnt want to do his job. IIRC Snit took him out before immediately. Anyone else recall such as that?

During the playoffs.
 
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PawPawMaxwell said:
I wonder if the reluctance to trade prospects to improve the big league team is a result of the Coppy misdeed. Deester and others living closer to the minor league teams certainly are more knowledgeable than I about the prospects but my unprofessional opinion is that we just dont have that much of value to others nor of value to us going forward.
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I clearly don't want to put the current situation solely at Anthopoulos' feet. He didn't inherit an ideal situation. Coppolella didn't do everything wrong, but he did a lot of things wrong and the international sanctions really decimated the pipeline of talent into the organization. It's not the guys who became free agents. Almost every one of them is struggling and I think del Rosario and Bae are the only ones playing above A ball. Maitan hasn't seen the field this year due to injury and he's no longer one of the Angels' Top 30 prospects. The bigger problem is the Braves couldn't add anyone of note during the sanctions and that has cut into minor league depth. That may be less of a problem going forward with the limit on the number of minor league players each franchise can have under contract, but anyone with a ceiling would be a bright addition.

I'm generally a prospect hoarder, but I will admit that I've been wrong about a number of guys and some of those guys have really lost what may have been significant trade value had they been moved earlier. I'm mainly thinking about Wright and Toussaint, but there are others.

It's going to be an interesting few years. It's pretty clear that Snitker and Anthopoulos are not really an ideal match between the field and the front office (given Snitker's repetition of the same mistakes all year, I don't know if he's a match for anyone) and I expect that to change. Curious to see what Anthopoulos can do if there's more in the resource department.
 
50PoundHead said:
I clearly don't want to put the current situation solely at Anthopoulos' feet. He didn't inherit an ideal situation. Coppolella didn't do everything wrong, but he did a lot of things wrong and the international sanctions really decimated the pipeline of talent into the organization. It's not the guys who became free agents. Almost every one of them is struggling and I think del Rosario and Bae are the only ones playing above A ball. Maitan hasn't seen the field this year due to injury and he's no longer one of the Angels' Top 30 prospects. The bigger problem is the Braves couldn't add anyone of note during the sanctions and that has cut into minor league depth. That may be less of a problem going forward with the limit on the number of minor league players each franchise can have under contract, but anyone with a ceiling would be a bright addition.

I'm generally a prospect hoarder, but I will admit that I've been wrong about a number of guys and some of those guys have really lost what may have been significant trade value had they been moved earlier. I'm mainly thinking about Wright and Toussaint, but there are others.

It's going to be an interesting few years. It's pretty clear that Snitker and Anthopoulos are not really an ideal match between the field and the front office (given Snitker's repetition of the same mistakes all year, I don't know if he's a match for anyone) and I expect that to change. Curious to see what Anthopoulos can do if there's more in the resource department.
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We're all trying to be realistic about the current situation, but I will admit I do think there's a trade out there that could make the 2022 Braves relevant - I just don't think Alex' hesitancy when it comes to moving these guys bodes well, and I'm not sure he has the value to make that kind of deal given the value they've lost while he waited. I had mentioned before that I think a blockbuster with the Rangers that lands you Gibson/Gallo/Kennedy would be enough to allow this team to chase the Mutts down and actually give them a puncher's chance in the postseason - I'm just not sure Alex would pull the trigger even if he has a package they'd accept.
 
Another move I would have been excited to see if Acuna hadn’t been lost, or a move that made sense months ago when everyone could see the Braves needed a backup catcher.

The Joc and Vogt moves should have happened in December when the playoff odds were 75%, not when they were 15%. I have to imagine this team gets about 10 more days to right the ship, and then the selling begins.
 
Enscheff said:
Another move I would have been excited to see if Acuna hadn’t been lost, or a move that made sense months ago when everyone could see the Braves needed a backup catcher.

The Joc and Vogt moves should have happened in December when the playoff odds were 75%, not when they were 15%. I have to imagine this team gets about 10 more days to right the ship, and then the selling begins.
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Last night was really a misstep on our part. We should have won that game and would have picked one up against the Mets who lost to a bad Pirates team.
 
We ain't going anywhere. Marte, Duvall, and a rh reliever are gonna keep the east streak alive. I'm in Smyrna now drinking up... I'm gonna deliver a big win tonight, and the pirates are gonna help us. Write it in stone...
 
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