Southcack77
Well-known member
Moneyball is literally buying things of value cheaper than they are worth. It’s contingent to analytics not synonymous.
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Braves dismiss Clark and Bridges
- Thread starter Oklahomabrave
- Start date
Yeah, who cares if a guy can actually play or not. As long as he grades out. Too smart for their own good eggheads are ruining the game. I absolutely love it when Moneyball theory fails.
Is the trio about to add a 4th member??
Yeah, who cares if a guy can actually play or not. As long as he grades out. Too smart for their own good eggheads are ruining the game. I absolutely love it when Moneyball theory fails.
Come on, Joe. Just because you’ll be on TV less doesn’t mean you have to show off about finally learning how to turn on your computer.
VirginiaBrave
Well-known member
You all just can't stand it that not everybody drinks the kool-aid. Stop ragging on Joe. 10 years ago before the nerds took over and he was with Boog everybody in this crowd for the most part had nothing but good to say for Joe.
You all just can't stand it that not everybody drinks the kool-aid. Stop ragging on Joe. 10 years ago before the nerds took over and he was with Boog everybody in this crowd for the most part had nothing but good to say for Joe.
i think you can't stand that the game is moving towards something you don't fully understand
i think you can't stand that the game is moving towards something you don't fully understand
Most folks have absolutely no problem with the new approaches, information, and ways to look at the game - it's great to hear other takes when people are looking to be helpful and a contributory part of baseball discussion.
What they can't stand is being talked down to - which unfortunately is the tone several overly analytic-leaning posters take. It really is OK to wish for things that don't necessarily line up perfectly based on the numbers - other than the feelings of someone entirely too invested in those things, no one's going to get hurt because a fan wants Kimbrel to come home.
Hey, fearless leader of the Twits....
If you can’t stand being talked down to by folks smarter than you, maybe you should call out the dinosaurs trying to talk down to the folks they disagree with too. The comment “You all just can't stand it that not everybody drinks the kool-aid” would be a good place to start.
Failure to do so makes you a hypocrite as well as a moron.
If you can’t stand being talked down to by folks smarter than you, maybe you should call out the dinosaurs trying to talk down to the folks they disagree with too. The comment “You all just can't stand it that not everybody drinks the kool-aid” would be a good place to start.
Failure to do so makes you a hypocrite as well as a moron.
VirginiaBrave
Well-known member
i think you can't stand that the game is moving towards something you don't fully understand
It's not about understanding or not understanding anything. I just refuse to try and put a number on everything.
It's not about understanding or not understanding anything. I just refuse to try and put a number on everything.
it's just additional, highly-useful information that happens to be used by just about every FO in baseball. it tells someone a lot more than their eyes do.
BeanieAntics
Arbitration Eligible
It's not about understanding or not understanding anything. I just refuse to try and put a number on everything.
Even if something is obviously quantifiable?
VirginiaBrave
Well-known member
Even if something is obviously quantifiable?
Definitely especially on the defensive side. Either the fielder gets to a ball or he doesn't no need put a number on it to explain the outcome.
Definitely especially on the defensive side. Either the fielder gets to a ball or he doesn't no need put a number on it to explain the outcome.
You must have voted Palmeiro for GG back in the day
You must have voted Palmeiro for GG back in the day
Like all the analytically-driven voters that awarded one to Markakis last year??? And they had all those neat metrics too!!!
BeanieAntics
Arbitration Eligible
Like all the analytically-driven voters that awarded one to Markakis last year??? And they had all those neat metrics too!!!
You have to be pretty far down the anti-analytics rabbit hole if you think that the BBWAA is analytically driven.
I always see you saying how your not opposed to analytics and how they are useful. I've never seen you support an argument using analytics and if the BBWAA is more analytic-friendly than you, every time you say something like that its just one of those "I'm not saying, but I'm totally saying" arguments that you seem to be making recently. I think I'd take your arguments more seriously if you just pulled Virginia and denounced analytics completely. At least then your premise would jive with the conclusions that you always arrive at.
You have to be pretty far down the anti-analytics rabbit hole if you think that the BBWAA is analytically driven.
I always see you saying how your not opposed to analytics and how they are useful. I've never seen you support an argument using analytics and if the BBWAA is more analytic-friendly than you, every time you say something like that its just one of those "I'm not saying, but I'm totally saying" arguments that you seem to be making recently. I think I'd take your arguments more seriously if you just pulled Virginia and denounced analytics completely. At least then your premise would jive with the conclusions that you always arrive at.
I'm not and absolutely believe they are quite useful - the defensive metrics far less-so though.
Not sure why one has to be all-in one way or the other. I believe the offensive and pitching metrics are incredibly helpful at helping us to understand more than our eyes "tell us", but put very little weight in what the defensive numbers tell you other than using them to help with positioning.
The BBWAA is trending much more towards analytics when casting votes for The Hall, why shouldn't we expect they're also using those numbers to a larger extent than ever before when it comes to voting for the other awards? King Felix and Jacob deGrom won Cy Young Awards even though their Stone Age stats didn't look good to all the "idiots", right?
I'm not and absolutely believe they are quite useful - the defensive metrics far less-so though.
Not sure why one has to be all-in one way or the other. I believe the offensive and pitching metrics are incredibly helpful at helping us to understand more than our eyes "tell us", but put very little weight in what the defensive numbers tell you other than using them to help with positioning.
The BBWAA is trending much more towards analytics when casting votes for The Hall, why shouldn't we expect they're also using those numbers to a larger extent than ever before when it comes to voting for the other awards? King Felix and Jacob deGrom won Cy Young Awards even though their Stone Age stats didn't look good to all the "idiots", right?
It's safe to say there is a pretty long history of good offensive players getting a GG that they don't deserve. And Neck had a great 1st half that he carried to an all-star game that the voters kept in their minds and they gave him the GG because he usually plays mistake free out there despite not getting to many balls as other players at the position.
There is nothing magical about Statcast's Catch Probability Added.
The radar knows where the player was standing. The radar knows where the batted ball landed. The radar knows how long the ball was in the air.
Those 3 precisely measured values are the inputs to the algorithm...
The algorithms can very easily calculate the probability of any combination of those 3 values resulting in a catch for every single play that happens in MLB.
It is then trivial to add up how many times a player didn't catch a ball that most guys do, or how often they catch a ball that most guy don't.
Once you add all those things up, you have 90% of what makes a good OFer a good OFer...and you don't need an eye test to do it.
The radar knows where the player was standing. The radar knows where the batted ball landed. The radar knows how long the ball was in the air.
Those 3 precisely measured values are the inputs to the algorithm...
The algorithms can very easily calculate the probability of any combination of those 3 values resulting in a catch for every single play that happens in MLB.
It is then trivial to add up how many times a player didn't catch a ball that most guys do, or how often they catch a ball that most guy don't.
Once you add all those things up, you have 90% of what makes a good OFer a good OFer...and you don't need an eye test to do it.
Like all the analytically-driven voters that awarded one to Markakis last year??? And they had all those neat metrics too!!!
what
Horsehide Harry
<B>Mr. Free Trade</B>
So let me tell you a story,
This guy was at the Miss Universe pageant as a judge. He got to select a winner (there would be more than one). The catch was, once he selected her, he had to marry her and MUST consummate the marriage within 24 hours, or else he would lose his manly parts. There were 25 young ladies, all were attractive and most seemed to have a talent in one or more areas be it music, dance, voice, whatever.
This guy also had access to each contestants medical records, arrest record, family history, number and quality of past relationships, awards won in their area of speciality, comparative stats against other contestants and even those not in the pageant, etc. etc.
As they came out to cross the stage, one young lass caught his eye. It was hard for him to look away. His only hope was that the other judges there not select his love before he had the chance.
The young ladies went backstage and all their pertinent data was placed on the table in front of the judges. Our hero, our judge, knowing his heart's desire waved away with disdain the opportunity to look at even one data file. The other judges shrugged and moved on about their business.
The ladies were brought back on stage. Our hero held his breath as one of the two judges in front of him selected Miss Canada. Our hero was relieved. Miss Canada was nice enough, sturdy, good personality, could hit the hell out of a fastball and didn't K much at all. But not his love.
Our hero held his breath again as the second judge selected Miss Mexico. Again he was relieved. Miss Mexico was lithe, graceful, could steal a base and kept an excellent OBP. But not his love.
Finally, our hero steps up and proudly calls out the name of......................Miss Cuba! That's right Hectorina Oliverio! She was the most beautiful creature ever featured in such a pageant. Our hero smiled as he walked quickly away with his new love while whispering love stanzas about the palace he would build, and nipping, nipping ever so lightly on Hectorina's ear.
The first judge looked at the second judge and said what the hell was that all about? The second judge said, don't know, I guess beauty is in the eye of the beholder. The first judge said, yeah, but the data says Miss Cuba has VD, has been doing steroids for years to sculpt her body, has an arrest record a mile long, is neck deep in with the Cuban mafia, was really a man until 6 months ago and has a hole in her swing the size of...well, you know!
The second judge says, I guess he'll find out.
Moral of the story: Get all the information you can before you make a decision.
This guy was at the Miss Universe pageant as a judge. He got to select a winner (there would be more than one). The catch was, once he selected her, he had to marry her and MUST consummate the marriage within 24 hours, or else he would lose his manly parts. There were 25 young ladies, all were attractive and most seemed to have a talent in one or more areas be it music, dance, voice, whatever.
This guy also had access to each contestants medical records, arrest record, family history, number and quality of past relationships, awards won in their area of speciality, comparative stats against other contestants and even those not in the pageant, etc. etc.
As they came out to cross the stage, one young lass caught his eye. It was hard for him to look away. His only hope was that the other judges there not select his love before he had the chance.
The young ladies went backstage and all their pertinent data was placed on the table in front of the judges. Our hero, our judge, knowing his heart's desire waved away with disdain the opportunity to look at even one data file. The other judges shrugged and moved on about their business.
The ladies were brought back on stage. Our hero held his breath as one of the two judges in front of him selected Miss Canada. Our hero was relieved. Miss Canada was nice enough, sturdy, good personality, could hit the hell out of a fastball and didn't K much at all. But not his love.
Our hero held his breath again as the second judge selected Miss Mexico. Again he was relieved. Miss Mexico was lithe, graceful, could steal a base and kept an excellent OBP. But not his love.
Finally, our hero steps up and proudly calls out the name of......................Miss Cuba! That's right Hectorina Oliverio! She was the most beautiful creature ever featured in such a pageant. Our hero smiled as he walked quickly away with his new love while whispering love stanzas about the palace he would build, and nipping, nipping ever so lightly on Hectorina's ear.
The first judge looked at the second judge and said what the hell was that all about? The second judge said, don't know, I guess beauty is in the eye of the beholder. The first judge said, yeah, but the data says Miss Cuba has VD, has been doing steroids for years to sculpt her body, has an arrest record a mile long, is neck deep in with the Cuban mafia, was really a man until 6 months ago and has a hole in her swing the size of...well, you know!
The second judge says, I guess he'll find out.
Moral of the story: Get all the information you can before you make a decision.
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