Braves donate Justin Upton to Padres for prospects

Hawk said:
Precisely.

Why is this so hard to understand? Red Sox did this with Lester last offseason.

Although I'm beginning to wonder, more and more, if the Braves FO simply didn't like Heyward. It makes more sense than any of these other half-baked scenarios floating around.
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Seriously? The FO really liked Heyward- it simply came down to doing what was in both his best and the team's best interests. How difficult is that to understand? I speak with lateral partners all the time and if the delta in their salary expectations vis a vis our projected salary figures are that disparate, we won't "make the offer" because it's a complete waste of both side's time. That is exactly what happened in this instance; it was made very clear that Heyward wanted to be in a much, much higher range of compensation than we were willing to go and both sides just handled themselves professionally by saying thank you and moving on.

Get over the drama already. I'm telling you what happened.
 
cajunrevenge said:
I have no idea what you mean. If you are saying we won't have depth for 3 more years then are we not agreeing that we need to add some depth?
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Well I don't believe we should worry about depth when trading these players because it dilutes the potential value of the impact player back. I would just make usre that we get 1 of Walker/paxton. Anything above that is just gravy.
 
ramadon101 said:
Seriously? The FO really liked Heyward- it simply came down to doing what was in both his best and the team's best interests. How difficult is that to understand? I speak with lateral partners all the time and if the delta in their salary expectations vis a vis our projected salary figures are that disparate, we won't "make the offer" because it's a complete waste of both side's time. That is exactly what happened in this instance; it was made very clear that Heyward wanted to be in a much, much higher range of compensation than we were willing to go and both sides just handled themselves professionally by saying thank you and moving on.

Get over the drama already. I'm telling you what happened.
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The Heyward fans/FO bashers just do not want to hear it.

I appreciate you providing your insight to the discussion and hope you choose to provide your input moving forward. Its a great asset to the community.
 
thethe said:
The Heyward fans/FO bashers just do not want to hear it.

I appreciate you providing your insight to the discussion and hope you choose to provide your input moving forward. Its a great asset to the community.
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Yep, agree completely 100%.

There is no doubt that the Braves and the FO wanted to keep Heyward, but with financial restraints and commitments to too much dead weight already on the roster, we had to do what we had to do, and look at the big picture.
 
Its pretty clear Heyward is worth more than the Braves were willing to pay. The argument is if he's worth the money that he wanted to be paid. If not, is the return enough to justify disposing of Heyward?
 
Might be a rough year for us. I love my Braves and will always root for them, but this may be the first time in a few years that I dont buy some kind of MLB package.
 
gilesfan said:
Its pretty clear Heyward is worth more than the Braves were willing to pay. The argument is if he's worth the money that he wanted to be paid. If not, is the return enough to justify disposing of Heyward?
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That's not really the whole argument. The Braves with Heyward, JUp, and TLS are probably good enough to compete in 2015 with a few tweaks such as a couple mid-tier SPs, an upgrade in the OF that slid Heyward to CF, and a LHed bench bat to compliment CJ. Those additions probably make the Braves an 85+ win team and contenders for a WC slot.

The problem is that taking a shot (and a pretty weak shot at that) in 2015 means the team faces a serious rebuild in 2016 and beyond after both Heyward and JUp leave for nothing but the 30th and 31st pick in the draft. A total rebuild wouldn't be the end of the world, except for the fact that a brand new ballpark is being opened in 2017, and the Braves absolutely MUST be contenders at that time.

Being competitive in 2017 trumps any other consideration for the Braves franchise at this time. No move can be made over the next 2 years that doesn't increase the team's chance to compete in 2017.

Therefore, Heyward and JUp must either be extended through 2017, or traded for assets that will help the MLB team by 2017. Since Heyward was deemed impossible to extend, he was traded for such assets. If JUp can't be extended, he too will be swapped for 2017 assets.

This FO most definitely has a plan...to be competitive in 2017 at all costs.
 
thethe said:
If you find a way to trade Upton for Walker/Miller or Taylor and then you sign Tomas then I think we are in a pretty good spot honestly.
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I think so. That doesn't seem outside the realm of possibility.

I do prefer Paxton to Walker and Miller (for our purposes) to Taylor, but the general idea is great.

As an aside, I'd be thrilled if we could somehow expand that deal to include Michael Saunders. Wouldn't take much more, he's fallen out of favor with Jack Z. Which doesn't necessarily mean anything, since Z is arbitrary and capricious.
 
The more I think about this, the more I like it. Seattle would wet themselves for Gattis, and we know they love JUpton. And they might pay him. And they might accept Mel as part of the price for the other two. We could kick in $5m of Mel if that got it done. Maybe you could do something like:

JUpton
MUpton + some cash (if needed) and
Gattis

For

Paxton/Walker
Miller/Taylor
Saunders

And sign Tomas. That would leave us with one 30 HR stiff, a solid CF, a young LH power bat who could play 2B or 3B with 3 yrs control left, 5-6 yrs worth of a pitching stud for one year of Fat Upton - and Melvin off the books.

Do it, John.
 
GovClintonTyree said:
The more I think about this, the more I like it. Seattle would wet themselves for Gattis, and we know they love JUpton. And they might pay him. And they might accept Mel as part of the price for the other two. We could kick in $5m of Mel if that got it done. Maybe you could do something like:

JUpton
MUpton + some cash (if needed) and
Gattis

For

Paxton/Walker
Miller/Taylor
Saunders

And sign Tomas. That would leave us with one 30 HR stiff, a solid CF, a young LH power bat who could play 2B or 3B with 3 yrs control left, 5-6 yrs worth of a pitching stud for one year of Fat Upton - and Melvin off the books.

Do it, John.
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Umm..

The Braves would have to send Gattis and cash just to get the M's to take BJ, leaving the trade as JUp for 3 young quality players. That isn't even a remotely plausible trade.

Again, JUp is probably worth approximately one of Walker or Paxton (something minor might be added by either or both sides). If Hart sends both JUp and Gattis to Seattle (without BJ) he might be able to get that type of package from the Ms.
 
If they could sign Tomas, and get Paxton or Walker and an IF prospect for Upton, that would be a decent offseason.

Young, talented rotation.

And some cap room to add a few bats.
 
If ramadon is right, there is no way Heyward is signing 6/120, especially since fangraphs said he's getting 200+

Cards will make him a good offer i'm sure but they'll have to blow his socks off for him to not to at least test FA.
 
thethe said:
The Heyward fans/FO bashers just do not want to hear it.
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This is correct. Frankly, unless we get Stanton, Trout, Price, and Kershaw for, say, BJ, Johnson, and the released Uggla, I fully intend to stay miffed for the foreseeable future.

Logic has absolutely nothing to do with it. Nothing.

Because in a lot of ways, the trade makes perfect sense. And it's also clear that I don't see the endgame. I admit that. And you know what? I don't care. Not even a little. No, I can't justify that. Don't intend to try. I DON'T root for laundry, and Jason Hayward entertained me. I liked the way he represented the team and my hometown, and I have no intention of being talked out of it with all your fancy "facts" and "logic." Yes, I can be downright Republican at times (a sentence I never dreamed I'd type.)

Baseball is a business to the people in the business. To the fans, it's a passion. The day that's no longer true is the day we stop tuning in and stop buying tickets. Until then, we Heyward fans are going to whine. And we're bloody well going to enjoy it.
 
Enscheff said:
Umm..

The Braves would have to send Gattis and cash just to get the M's to take BJ, leaving the trade as JUp for 3 young quality players. That isn't even a remotely plausible trade.

Again, JUp is probably worth approximately one of Walker or Paxton (something minor might be added by either or both sides). If Hart sends both JUp and Gattis to Seattle (without BJ) he might be able to get that type of package from the Ms.
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I think the pitcher plus one of the young infielders is plausible. And I happ to be aware that the boss wants to unload Saunders. Eating a little cash on Mel plus Gattis makes that half plausible.

I think we disagree a little bit on what Upton could bring. And I really think Saunders can be had for not much. If we had to adjust with another player/prospect, fine. But don't think Seattle wouldn't be very interested if you offered them both big boys.
 
gilesfan said:
Its pretty clear Heyward is worth more than the Braves were willing to pay. The argument is if he's worth the money that he wanted to be paid. If not, is the return enough to justify disposing of Heyward?
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It's a battle of subjective stances. We don't know what the market will bear for Heyward because he hasn't been on the open market. Braves think he was worth what they were planning to offer. Heyward thinks he is worth what he is going to ask for.

Unless he really blows up in St. Louis and the Cards open the bank (and by really blowing up, I'm saying his power gets back to where it was with no erosion in other aspects of his game), my guess is he'll hit the open market.
 
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