Braves donate Justin Upton to Padres for prospects

Tapate50 said:
How many superstar position players does SF have?

What do they have?
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BUster Posey, Hunter Pence, Michael MOrse.

Theres this myth the Giants were a weak hitting team who just got on base. Here's the truth. In the NL Giants were tied for 7th in OBP, 6 one thousandths better than the Braves, in BB% Giants were tied for 11th. People have been making them out to be some sort of team of small ball players when they weren't, they were as much of a power team as they were a walking team (7th in the NL in power)

And good god how can people say thier pitching was what won them anything last year? THey had a 3.50 ERA 3.58 FIP and 3.59 xFIP in a pitcher friendly park. our pitchers best 2/3 of those numbers in harsher confines.

Giants did a good job because they were managed exceptionally, Giants had a 23.7 fWAR on offense and 8.7 fWAR pitching, we totalled a 16.5 offense and 16.1 pitching. Overall we were basically an equal team to the Giants, sans our managers.
 
zitothebrave said:
BUster Posey, Hunter Pence, Michael MOrse.

Theres this myth the Giants were a weak hitting team who just got on base. Here's the truth. In the NL Giants were tied for 7th in OBP, 6 one thousandths better than the Braves, in BB% Giants were tied for 11th. People have been making them out to be some sort of team of small ball players when they weren't, they were as much of a power team as they were a walking team (7th in the NL in power)

And good god how can people say thier pitching was what won them anything last year? THey had a 3.50 ERA 3.58 FIP and 3.59 xFIP in a pitcher friendly park. our pitchers best 2/3 of those numbers in harsher confines.

Giants did a good job because they were managed exceptionally, Giants had a 23.7 fWAR on offense and 8.7 fWAR pitching, we totalled a 16.5 offense and 16.1 pitching. Overall we were basically an equal team to the Giants, sans our managers.
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Buster Posey went .154 in the WS. Hunter Pence is pretty good but not a superstar. They won because of Madison Baumgartner, not because of any of the WAR's that you looked up on Fangraphs.
 
BedellBrave said:
I don't think I'd use the words "random" or "crapshoot" with either team.
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Well, you're certainly entitled to your opinion. I just go with what my eyes and the numbers tell me.

I know it's easier to tell ourselves the best team wins every year, but I just don't believe that to be the case. Too many sure things fail in baseball. There is no consistent formula to winning the World Series - but there is consistency in getting to the playoffs. Once you're there, good pitching and good managing give you a small edge, but baseball is game that can be affected greatly by individual performances to such a degree that you're basically hoping for the best.
 
Knucksie said:
Buster Posey went .154 in the WS. Hunter Pence is pretty good but not a superstar. They won because of Madison Baumgartner, not because of any of the WAR's that you looked up on Fangraphs.
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Bumgarner was a fine starter all year and kicked it up a notch come the post season. Therefor proving, once you get into the post season, who knows what can happen. Bumgarner was far and away the Giants best pitcher all season, and he continued that come post season with a bigger improvement. So thanks for proving my point for me.
 
zitothebrave said:
BUster Posey, Hunter Pence, Michael MOrse.

Theres this myth the Giants were a weak hitting team who just got on base. Here's the truth. In the NL Giants were tied for 7th in OBP, 6 one thousandths better than the Braves, in BB% Giants were tied for 11th. People have been making them out to be some sort of team of small ball players when they weren't, they were as much of a power team as they were a walking team (7th in the NL in power)

And good god how can people say thier pitching was what won them anything last year? THey had a 3.50 ERA 3.58 FIP and 3.59 xFIP in a pitcher friendly park. our pitchers best 2/3 of those numbers in harsher confines.

Giants did a good job because they were managed exceptionally, Giants had a 23.7 fWAR on offense and 8.7 fWAR pitching, we totalled a 16.5 offense and 16.1 pitching. Overall we were basically an equal team to the Giants, sans our managers.
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Morse is not a star, he is a one trick (no D playin) role player. Hunter Pence is a nice player, but nothing more than that.

They made the WS 3 times, I don't care what WAR and FWAR TELL you but they are doing lots better than us. Managing making that big of a difference? Hmmmm... I'd have to see what MFWar tells me (that's manager ****ing up wins above Replacement)
 
Tapate50 said:
Morse is not a star, he is a one trick (no D playin) role player. Hunter Pence is a nice player, but nothing more than that.

They made the WS 3 times, I don't care what WAR and FWAR TELL you but they are doing lots better than us. Managing making that big of a difference? Hmmmm... I'd have to see what MFWar tells me (that's manager ****ing up wins above Replacement)
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You were implying they did it without offense, I listed 3 guys who hit very well. Morse doesn't fit the mold of your point. And he was a part of their success.
 
zitothebrave said:
You were implying they did it without offense, I listed 3 guys who hit very well. Morse doesn't fit the mold of your point. And he was a part of their success.
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I wasn't. I was implying they did it without superstars. They did. They have Buster. Pence is a secondary tier player in every sense of the word. Morse is a journeyman 1b with no glove.

The idea we can't win without superstars is beyond silly. They got great pitching, and they don't have holes up and down the lineup.
 
Tapate50 said:
I wasn't. I was implying they did it without superstars. They did. They have Buster. Pence is a secondary tier player in every sense of the word. Morse is a journeyman 1b with no glove.

The idea we can't win without superstars is beyond silly. They got great pitching, and they don't have holes up and down the lineup.
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True story. Braves currently have like 6 holes in their lineup
 
Tapate50 said:
I wasn't. I was implying they did it without superstars. They did. They have Buster. Pence is a secondary tier player in every sense of the word. Morse is a journeyman 1b with no glove.

The idea we can't win without superstars is beyond silly. They got great pitching, and they don't have holes up and down the lineup.
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Former MVP winner Buster Posey isn't a superstar?
 
Tapate50 said:
Yet to be determined, but thought it was clear we were rebuilding and pointing toward 2017?
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Fans haven't accepted that we are in a rebuild and there was no other logical option considering the albatross contracts and the horrid farm system.
 
holden said:
Well, you're certainly entitled to your opinion. I just go with what my eyes and the numbers tell me.

I know it's easier to tell ourselves the best team wins every year, but I just don't believe that to be the case. Too many sure things fail in baseball. There is no consistent formula to winning the World Series - but there is consistency in getting to the playoffs. Once you're there, good pitching and good managing give you a small edge, but baseball is game that can be affected greatly by individual performances to such a degree that you're basically hoping for the best.
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I don't tell myself that the best team wins every year. That's a straw man. I'm saying though that there's a better way in my opinion to build a team and franchise that is better positioned to get into and play further in the playoffs most years than we've been employing or would be employing tinkering with the 2014 roster. Course I could be wrong. Won't be the first time.
 
Tapate50 said:
Morse is not a star, he is a one trick (no D playin) role player. Hunter Pence is a nice player, but nothing more than that.

They made the WS 3 times, I don't care what WAR and FWAR TELL you but they are doing lots better than us. Managing making that big of a difference? Hmmmm... I'd have to see what MFWar tells me (that's manager ****ing up wins above Replacement)
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I'd hate to see what Fredi's MFWar is. It was at least -5.0 last season.
 
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