Braves in talks with DBacks for Trevor Cahill

CyYoung31 said:
Err..I should say this ongoing war between pro-Mukaki rebuilders and anti-Mukaki rebuilders needs no other posts. I largely approve of this move.
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But should the ongoing war between pro-Markaki and anti-Markaki continue?
 
zitothebrave said:
Did I say his word was final? He's a guy who watches 100+ Orioles games a season, and has followed Markakis through the minors. You don't have to regard his opinion. But he's seen the slide fthat stats indicate happened. And pointed out one that I hasn't read about as well.
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Where are you getting the line drive distance numbers?
 
thethe said:
Yeah, keep him for 1 season and get nothing in return for a damn good player but a first round pick that has a limited chance of ever doing squat for the Braves. Sounds like a great strategy.
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This has no basis of fact in it whatsoever. Hart wouldn't even be able to confirm, because, well, you know, he never even talked to him
 
sturg33 said:
This has no basis of fact in it whatsoever. Hart wouldn't even be able to confirm, because, well, you know, he never even talked to him
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Does your version of the story have any basis of fact? The story where Jason was going to sign an extension and we were all going to live happily ever after?
 
sturg33 said:
This has no basis of fact in it whatsoever. Hart wouldn't even be able to confirm, because, well, you know, he never even talked to him
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You really think they never talked with Babe Ruth about an extension?
 
Heyward said:
You really think they never talked with Babe Ruth about an extension?
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thethe said:
And when inflation continues to hit baseball his 10M will look like less and less of an investment.
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This is kinda the overriding point though, isn't it??? Like thewupk says, several of these deals look bad when comparing them to today's dollars, but when you understand that revenues and salaries are continuing to increase, they don't look nearly as bad when you measure them against the future value of those dollars. The average MLB salary has increased from $3 million per in 2008 to $4.25 million per today. If they continue to rise at that rate the average salary in 2022 will be $7.25 million per.

All of a sudden these contracts being signed today don't look nearly so bad. The thing that I find odd about some of the people complaining the most about the Markakis deal is that many of them applauded the Freeman deal because it would look so much better by the time he was actually making $20+ million per and make the same point about how paying Heyward or Upton that kind of money now would look like a steal in a few years the way salaries are increasing.

The question I keep asking is "What's the difference?" You're likely going to be overpaying them in the last 2-3 years of an 8 year deal as their skills decline as well. If revenues continue to increase, these apparent overpays simply become more manageable and don't cripple you. The increase in revenues when the new stadium opens will more than take care of the assumed amount Markakis underperforms.
 
clvclv said:
This is kinda the overriding point though, isn't it??? Like thewupk says, several of these deals look bad when comparing them to today's dollars, but when you understand that revenues and salaries are continuing to increase, they don't look nearly as bad when you measure them against the future value of those dollars. The average MLB salary has increased from $3 million per in 2008 to $4.25 million per today. If they continue to rise at that rate the average salary in 2022 will be $7.25 million per.

All of a sudden these contracts being signed today don't look nearly so bad. The thing that I find odd about some of the people complaining the most about the Markakis deal is that many of them applauded the Freeman deal because it would look so much better by the time he was actually making $20+ million per and make the same point about how paying Heyward or Upton that kind of money now would look like a steal in a few years the way salaries are increasing.

The question I keep asking is "What's the difference?" You're likely going to be overpaying them in the last 2-3 years of an 8 year deal as their skills decline as well. If revenues continue to increase, these apparent overpays simply become more manageable and don't cripple you. The increase in revenues when the new stadium opens will more than take care of the assumed amount Markakis underperforms.
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I don't want to answer for anyone else, but to me, the difference is the caliber of player. I think the argument is not that Nick's deal will cripple the team—it won't—but that it was a poor use of resources for a team in the Braves' situation, i.e. mid-payroll, rebuilding. From that point of view, the contract is a FA overpay for a guy who is probably untradeable, is possibly injured, and might very well be a boat anchor by the end of the deal.

So you're arguing that it's a better relative value over time. Sure, but that's like saying that you got a really good deal on a car loan, and purchased a high-mileage vehicle with low resale value and questionable reliability.

disclaimer: I like Nick Markakis and hope that he rakes, plays GG defense, and polices the clubhouse as promised.
 
thethe said:
Does your version of the story have any basis of fact? The story where Jason was going to sign an extension and we were all going to live happily ever after?
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I've never said that we would sign him. Clearly the front office was not interested in doing so.

But you and others spout off as fact that he was as good as gone. When in fact, the front office never spoke to him.
 
sturg33 said:
I've never said that we would sign him. Clearly the front office was not interested in doing so.

But you and others spout off as fact that he was as good as gone. When in fact, the front office never spoke to him.
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Jason was going to go to free agency. Why wouldn't an athlete that is going to get paid on the open market as much as him not investigate. We all see what happens when the Braves have to compete on that market. It doesn't end well.

Also, why is it a FACT that the front office never spoke to Jason (or his reps considering the nature of contract law is that speaking to an agent is the same as speaking to the principal).
 
thethe said:
Also, why is it a FACT that the front office never spoke to Jason (or his reps considering the nature of contract law is that speaking to an agent is the same as speaking to the principal).
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Both sides basically said that they hadn't talked since the ten-minute discussion WREN had with Heyward's agent where the agent said they wanted to revisit the discussion at the end of the season, which never happened.
 
Pretty obvious Heyward is overrated and Markakis is underrated by some on this board.

Heyward should get twice the money Markakis gets, so let's see if Heyward has twice the numbers Markakis has these next 4 years.

I see both sides arguments on this ongoing debate, but Nick is a solid player and we all are going to be happy to have him. I have an Orioles fan as a friend who hated losing him to us.

Just sattle up and get ready to cheer on our new #22.
 
I don't know if I can handle going down this road again. People threatening to leave, repeated random Babe Ruth comparisons, gloryholes, and Honeybaked Ham.

It's just too much for my heart to take.
 
Dalyn said:
Both sides basically said that they hadn't talked since the ten-minute discussion WREN had with Heyward's agent where the agent said they wanted to revisit the discussion at the end of the season, which never happened.
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But they spoke at some point then. The scenario that is basically portrayed around here is that the front office essentially never spoke to Heyward about an extensions at all. That is simply not the case. Could they have communicated more? Of course...but that is a two way street as well.
 
Dunit24 said:
Pretty obvious Heyward is overrated and Markakis is underrated by some on this board.

Heyward should get twice the money Markakis gets, so let's see if Heyward has twice the numbers Markakis has these next 4 years.

I see both sides arguments on this ongoing debate, but Nick is a solid player and we all are going to be happy to have him. I have an Orioles fan as a friend who hated losing him to us.

Just sattle up and get ready to cheer on our new #22.
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Last 4 years Heyward has a 17 fWAR and Markakis a 5.3. So um yeah I think there's a very very very very very very very very very very good chance Heyward has "twice the numbers" that Markakis has over the next 4 years. He'll probably have 3-4 if not perhaps an incalculable amount as Markakis could be a net negative player.
 
thethe said:
Thats too bad...I would have been real interested in that stat. Hopefully somoene makes that available.
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Hard to say. It may have been something he or one of his friends came up with too. THey're all engineers so they have too much brains and not enough time.
 
thethe said:
But they spoke at some point then. The scenario that is basically portrayed around here is that the front office essentially never spoke to Heyward about an extensions at all. That is simply not the case. Could they have communicated more? Of course...but that is a two way street as well.
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Most people say HART never led a discussion with Heyward and/or his agent, and by what both sides have said that appears to be fact.
 
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